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Discussion Starter #1
OK, Ill try to keep this short and just lay out the problem and what I have tried
2001 TLS will not start. Acts like the battery is dead, turn key, lights come on , fuel pump wines, press the starter it turns over slow and starts get slower shows no sign of firing.

-Had battery checked, they said its good under load.
-Went through ALL of the connections, added dialectric grease and cleaned.
-voltage at bat, 12.7, 11.95 w/key and lights on, I hit the starter and it drops to 5.9.
-Disconected the battery, checked voltage again, same, but when I hit the starter it drops to about 11.8 from the fuel pump running
-Relay seems good, no shorts in wire to starter.

Everything looks like its a shit battery, am I missing something, I did pull apart the starter and it seems good:whipping the wipping doesnt have anything to do with this, I just thought it was funny.
 

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TLOTM Sept. '08
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...Everything looks like its a shit battery, am I missing something...
Nope, got it in 1.
When was load test done?
Your starter IS a load test and proves that it is failing. Low cranking speed and low voltage are giving you that information.
Simple test - connect jumper leads off car (or whatever) and try again - if it spins normally, you have your confirmation.

Either that your motor is partially seized! :devious
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That is what my gut is telling me, everything is pointing to the battery, I just had it tested yesterday. I was hoping you all might have another thought before I throw down $80-$90 on a battery if I dont need it.
 

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What's the amp/hour rating of your battery? You could have the volts but not the amps if the plates are cooked. Has it ever been over charged?
 

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Another posisbility: oil way too thick for cold weather.

Consider doing the load-shed relay mod and coil +mod relay at the same time. It makes a real difference to have your headlights and taillights off while cranking.
 

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A stalled starter motor on a good battery should not be able to pull the volts down to 5.9, I'd go with a dud battery too. :yes
 

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Nope, got it in 1.
When was load test done?
Your starter IS a load test and proves that it is failing. Low cranking speed and low voltage are giving you that information.
Simple test - connect jumper leads off car (or whatever) and try again - if it spins normally, you have your confirmation.

Either that your motor is partially seized! :devious
Careful about doing that with a car battery. Sometimes those batteries are powerful enough to actually melt some of the wires on a motorcycle wiring harness. Motorcycle wiring harnesses aren't meant to take that many amps.
 

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I had the same problem, I think what happened is my charging system killed a good battery. If you can bump start it or get another battery to start it make sure to check your charging voltage. My battery would read about like yours and I found that my bike was only putting out 11V charging. If that's the case for you check the frequent mods area and do the charging mod. I did it to mine and now get a healthy 14.3V charge.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
SOLVED!!!! This is a little odd but it came down to this
I checked the battery again at Kragen and the cells were good and everything checked out. I almost bought a battery anyway just because everything was pointing at it. The last thing I though it could be is the starter. I wanted to know if the starter would spin strong when off the bike. I rigged up a ground hit the starter button and the starter turned but with hesitations and grunting. I pulled the starter apart and this is what I found
The starter housing has a small tab on it that lines up with two prongs on the bracket that holds the brushes. If those prongs are not in that tab the case will spinn freely around the starter. I am not sure how that would effect the starter but it did. I made sure that that tab was seated between those two prongs and carefully re assemble the starter. Installed the start and that ****er started right up!
Problem was my fault, I have had that starter apart before to clean it and maintainit. I might have assembled it wrong and it over time spun itself around to were it was out of wack..... Well I now know my electrical system by heart and every component on the bike is clean and greased and the bike is charging at 13.4 volts at 3krpm.
Time to drink some beer. Thanks for the help TL family and sharing my pain
 

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Upside Down Super Mod,
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There you go. Good job :thumbup
 

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TLOTM Sept. '08
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Careful about doing that with a car battery. Sometimes those batteries are powerful enough to actually melt some of the wires on a motorcycle wiring harness. Motorcycle wiring harnesses aren't meant to take that many amps.
Nonsense - the bike will only draw as much current as it wants - car battery can't 'force' any more current than the bike's draw requires and if a problem in the bike's circuitry would demand more than 30A, the main fuse would blow anyway.

JRod TLS - good job in finding it.
 

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Nope, got it in 1.
When was load test done?
Your starter IS a load test and proves that it is failing. Low cranking speed and low voltage are giving you that information.
Simple test - connect jumper leads off car (or whatever) and try again - if it spins normally, you have your confirmation.

Either that your motor is partially seized! :devious
D'Ecosse was right.....again :hail
 

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Nonsense - the bike will only draw as much current as it wants - car battery can't 'force' any more current than the bike's draw requires and if a problem in the bike's circuitry would demand more than 30A, the main fuse would blow anyway.

JRod TLS - good job in finding it.
Good point. I do stand corrected. I was just passing on what I've been told, never actually tried it myself. :banghead
 

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TLOTM Sept. '08
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Good point. I do stand corrected. I was just passing on what I've been told, never actually tried it myself. :banghead
Sorry - my response looks harsh in retrospect - was not intended that way.
The common hearsay I believe you may be thinking, is about connecting a bike to a running car alternator system.
Even that is often misrepresented:
Again, the car's alternator can't 'push' any more current than the bike wants to demand - however the problem is not one of current, but voltage.
Car alternator systems typically run higher than bike systems - even that in itself is not a problem
But the bike's Regulator thinks the output voltage is too high, and goes into full shunt mode because it believe IT is the one supplying that high output voltage - so tries to shut it down (but of course can't).
There is no immediate danger of failure, but if left connected like this for extended period of time, the bike Regulator will kill itself due to excess heat generated by being in 100% shunt mode (i.e. ALL the current the stator generates is converted to thermal energy by the Regulator)
So - best to just not connect it to running auto - even though it won't be an instant failure type of ordeal
Hope that helps!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have had to jump my bike strait at the starter because I couldnt get the jumpers to fit on the battery, That might be a little on the dangerous side because there is no fuesable link within the starter, the amps might do damage to the windings in the starter. But in a pinch when you are stuck at a gas station in the middle of nowere what else you going to do?
 

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I have had to jump my bike strait at the starter because I couldnt get the jumpers to fit on the battery, That might be a little on the dangerous side because there is no fuesable link within the starter, the amps might do damage to the windings in the starter. But in a pinch when you are stuck at a gas station in the middle of nowere what else you going to do?
That doesn't have the extra safety feature of the fusible link but its still plenty safe. The availability of excess current capacity is irrelevant. And if the starter was stalled or overheating or smoking you'd notice long before the insulation of the windings burned off enough to make a direct enough short to blow a fusible link; your eyes and nose are better sensors. The biggest risk is pobably that your conneciton might be poor and spark at the starter post enough to damage it.
 

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Sorry - my response looks harsh in retrospect - was not intended that way.
The common hearsay I believe you may be thinking, is about connecting a bike to a running car alternator system.
Even that is often misrepresented:
Again, the car's alternator can't 'push' any more current than the bike wants to demand - however the problem is not one of current, but voltage.
Car alternator systems typically run higher than bike systems - even that in itself is not a problem
But the bike's Regulator thinks the output voltage is too high, and goes into full shunt mode because it believe IT is the one supplying that high output voltage - so tries to shut it down (but of course can't).
There is no immediate danger of failure, but if left connected like this for extended period of time, the bike Regulator will kill itself due to excess heat generated by being in 100% shunt mode (i.e. ALL the current the stator generates is converted to thermal energy by the Regulator)
So - best to just not connect it to running auto - even though it won't be an instant failure type of ordeal
Hope that helps!
No problems, no offense taken.
 

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But the bike's Regulator thinks the output voltage is too high, and goes into full shunt mode because it believe IT is the one supplying that high output voltage
Hadn't thought of that. Hate that kind of crappy bike regulator. Is that also the case with that super-duper FET regulator I bought at the on-list recommendation??? Come to think of it, will it clamp down excess voltage at the output side, or only at the input side...will the diodes prevent it from seeing the excess voltage at the output side? I can't remember where the rectifier diodes are in relation to the regualtor...or are they SCRs all in one?
 

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TLOTM Sept. '08
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Old (SCR) or new (MOSFET) will both respond the same way - the regulator stage is on the front end of the device.
The difference is the MOSFET item is less likely to fry itself, even in that mode.
But bottom line - just don't have the car running with either - there is no need!
Car battery alone cannot create that circumstance, only from the higher output voltage generated by the car alternator.
If a decent car battery can't start it, then having the car engine running is not going to make it better.
 
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