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Discussion Starter #1
Or are they?????????

I always thought that twins were inherently heavy compared to their inline four counterparts. I never researched why.

So now that Ducati has released the 160hp 381lb (173kg?) 1098cc Superbike, what gives?

1. Why did twins used to be so heavy?

2. How can a manufacturer just lose so much weight to produce a twin that is now the highest torque/weight ratio on the street?

http://raptorsandrockets.com/News/2007_Ducati.htm

And, to keep this TL related, why was the TL so heavy compared to the inline fours?
 

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V-twins tend to be heavy because you need to seperate sets of cylinders, heads, cams etc while an inline engine can utilize one cylinder bank, one set of cams etc.

Also, V-twins haven't really recived any major R&D attention over the last 9 years. TL's use mid-1990's GSXR SRAD technology while the four cylinders have had huge amounts of R&D spent continually for the past decade, that's where the big difference comes in.

For a given displacement and technology/tuning level twins are at a disadvantage to four cylinders in terms of outright horsepower due to the simple physics involved.
 

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how much per pound would that Ducati cost? or how much per horse power?:confused

PS: we need girl smilies!:rant
 

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If ya find some girl smilies you like, post them up and I'll bug the admins about adding them:D
 

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does anyone have a weight comparison of a TL motor vs a Gixxer motor? i'd be curious about that. I know everyone says the TL's are heavy, which they are, but my last bike was a bandit600, and the TL is lighter than that was. I also think it loses its weight a lot when it starts moving. all my friends have said the same thing, the moment you get it rolling, it no longer seems so heavy.
 

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if i remeber correctly, when the s came out it was the same weight as a fireblade,and 10kg lighter than a 916.....ducati have the weight down now,but they.ve put the money into it.....good on em...the new bike is a breath of fresh air compared to the 999.
 

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The numbers on the new Duc are crazy. Has Suzuki and Honda totally abandoned putting anymore R&D into the V-twin? Has anyone heard any ramblings about a potential rebirth of the V-twin Superbike?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Oh, the rumors...

Some say Honda will be following soon, maybe at EICMA in Milan coming up....that's when the Duc was scheduling for introduction.

With those crazy specs AND a price reduction to $14,995, the competition better do something.

Personally, I think this will usher in the next generation of v-twin superbike wars (with the appropriate racing displacement rule changes) and I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!
 

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V-twins tend to be heavy because you need to seperate sets of cylinders, heads, cams etc while an inline engine can utilize one cylinder bank, one set of cams etc.

Also, V-twins haven't really recived any major R&D attention over the last 9 years. TL's use mid-1990's GSXR SRAD technology while the four cylinders have had huge amounts of R&D spent continually for the past decade, that's where the big difference comes in.

For a given displacement and technology/tuning level twins are at a disadvantage to four cylinders in terms of outright horsepower due to the simple physics involved.
Exactly!

If v-twins got as popular as 4il bikes it would be way different! I mean.. the sv1000 has a engine based on the '97 TL lump.. Not that al gixxers have had an update every year (oilcoolers) but they get updated quite often now!

And more specific about the physics.. more rotating mass, allot of torque and 2 rods on one tap. That means you need quite some thicker stuff to keep it together! And thicker stuff needs big bearings.. big bearings have more play! and because of the bigger diameter (at equal speed) means more friction (access speed is higher). Engine is longer and probably wheelbase too.. which means a tiny bit more material I guess.

O and torque comes from big stroke which has something to do with piston speed and fill rate. Anywho, this raises the piston speed dramaticaly and therefor it is not able to rev so much. Of course that ain't good for power output! :)
 

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does anyone have a weight comparison of a TL motor vs a Gixxer motor? i'd be curious about that. I know everyone says the TL's are heavy, which they are, but my last bike was a bandit600, and the TL is lighter than that was. I also think it loses its weight a lot when it starts moving. all my friends have said the same thing, the moment you get it rolling, it no longer seems so heavy.
Can hardly think of a bike with less aluminium on it! ;)
If they had only let go of one can the TL could be over 8kg lichter! imagine that!!

Can't wait either.. for them marvelous R&D guys to get their hands on a real beauty of a twin engine! And not a short stroke thingy cause it'll loose caracter to much.. but that's probably a difficult target :(
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yep. 1098 = $14,995, 1098S = $19,995, 1098R = $24,995. Ducati has repositioned their pricing and it's much lower....crazy, but they'll sell a ton of them.
 

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I sort of hate this, you know that?

They gonna sell loads.. or course they gonna, they need that to keep the show running at all. Just like Alfa Romeo..

But this means the charme will be going a way bit by bit. Eventually it's not about: that rattling ducati which breaks down a lot.. said by people who actually like to have one if the could afford it.
 

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Dry weight for a 97 TLS (claimed) is 187kg. The TLR is a few kilos heavier.

However, it fairly easy to shave quite a bit off this figure. For example, most owners will have replaced the rather huge and heavy stock cans with lighter after market upgrades. In my case much smaller and lighter titanium cans shed quite a bit of weight. I'm guessing but suspect this brings dry weight below 180kg. I'm not sure, therefore, why this is thought to be 'heavy', but perhaps I misunderstand. I realise a lot of new metal comes in well under this (before someone points out the weight of this and that!) but it seems to me relatively incrumental, it's not obvious to me how much 'real world' difference it makes (my old gsx600 is around 195kg dry weight).

Doc
 
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