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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys this one has me stumped and the guy who will most likely be charging me to fix it :dowhat
I have spent a couple of days going over the search result both here and on the planet but the symptoms are a little different hence this is a long post :)

What happened.
I had a dent taken out of my tank after a muppet dropped his bike onto mine in a car park, After I got the bike back, there was a leak from the gasket of the tank so I took it back to the shop (normally I do all my own work :devious ) After picking up my bike, the motor was warmed up on fast idle. I went out and onto the roundabout leaving Avon Suzuki and the motor started to surge in 2nd gear going around the corner. Riding the clutch I was able to keep the revs up and the bike stable. Stuck in traffic the bike was surging and buck in the 2500-3500rpm range. The fuel light was on so I assumed lack of fuel and pulled into the Shell. 13litres gave a full tank so low fuel was not the issue. Continuing down Blenheim Rd the surging was still evident but not under acceleration, just at cruising speed. This is very severe surging with the bike jumping on/off on/off not just the hesitation you get when things aren't balanced
What I have tried:
- Checked hoses to air box - bottom left hose NOT connected. Reconnected - no change
- Check for kinks in vacuum hoses -none.
- Check for kinks in fuel hoses - none.
-Check for loose wiring/ dirty connectors - none.
-TPS check using factory mode on the dash - TPS was within normal boundaries ie middle bar at 1200rpm and top bar from 1500rpm.
-TPS check using Power Commander software - showed normal progression through the throttle openings.
-Disconnecting the Power Commander (ECU only)- no change
-Changing rear spark plug -no change
- Checked Idle (Raised to 1300 to prevent stalling)
- Checked leads/connections to coils and relays -no change.
Saturday afternoon with no traffic on the road - went out to Tai tapu and back (100kms) with some injector cleaner in the tank. Bike is fine during acceleration and high RPM but surges in all gears/speeds at 2500~4000rpm ie cruising speed and has a tendency to stall or rush when cornering or stuck in traffic.

Things I haven't checked:
- With the airbox off it seems that once the throttle butterflies are open (more than 5% throttle) the surging is gone - idle circuit?
- front plug (was changed about 1000km ago).
- balance between throttle bodies - I assumed they hadn't been touched and didn't want to touch at this time. Also my gauges are on lone.
- routing of air hoses - again didn't want to touch. I only reconnected the breather hose to the air box as it hadn't been reattached after servicing.
- connections to the fuel pump or hose fittings all seem secure.
- fuel pressure -bike runs fine at high RPM and idle.
-injectors - has been suggested to me that there might have been some dirt in the hoses that made its way through while the tank was open, but the shop installed a new hose.
-secondary injectors only open past 6000rpm -swapping the plugs might identify if a blocked injector was the cause?

Called the shop for an update and the mechanics said that they think its a dodgy sensor and will really need a donor bike to start swapping stuff around on.
Anyone encounter anything similar to this? Cheers!
 

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Called the shop for an update and the mechanics said that they think its a dodgy sensor and will really need a donor bike to start swapping stuff around on.
That's a worry.
If they knew what they were doing they would know that a sensor that was misbehaving badly enough to cause this would throw a fault code.
If the only way they can diagnose problems is to start swapping parts then you are in the wrong place.


Did it set any fault codes? (red light flashing and FI displayed on the dash?)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yep, they are the only Suzuki place left standing in Christchurch after the earthquakes though, so I didn't have a lot of choice for an insurance repair. :(
Apparently they 'tested' the bike before they gave it back

No fault codes come up at all and the only things they changed were the filter and the gasket and a new hose. Doesn't seem like any of the fuel pump problems I searched on either.
My mate has a TLS and has just kindly volunteered to lend me his TPS for diagnosis.
 

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.....
Saturday afternoon with no traffic on the road - went out to Tai tapu and back (100kms) with some injector cleaner in the tank. Bike is fine during acceleration and high RPM but surges in all gears/speeds at 2500~4000rpm ie cruising speed and has a tendency to stall or rush when cornering or stuck in traffic.

Things I haven't checked:
- With the airbox off it seems that once the throttle butterflies are open (more than 5% throttle) the surging is gone - idle circuit?
- front plug (was changed about 1000km ago).
- balance between throttle bodies - I assumed they hadn't been touched and didn't want to touch at this time. Also my gauges are on lone.
- routing of air hoses - again didn't want to touch. I only reconnected the breather hose to the air box as it hadn't been reattached after servicing.
- connections to the fuel pump or hose fittings all seem secure.
- fuel pressure -bike runs fine at high RPM and idle.
-injectors - has been suggested to me that there might have been some dirt in the hoses that made its way through while the tank was open, but the shop installed a new hose.
-secondary injectors only open past 6000rpm -swapping the plugs might identify if a blocked injector was the cause?

Called the shop for an update and the mechanics said that they think its a dodgy sensor and will really need a donor bike to start swapping stuff around on.
Anyone encounter anything similar to this? Cheers!
I agree with your diagnosis thus far. It doesn't seem to be a lack of fuel or spark. However, now that you have considered many of the possible causes, it is down to verifying the throttle body balance. A poor balance on the TBs (due to maladjustment or vacuum leak) would explain the symptoms you are experiencing. As Steve mentioned, at this point, given the fact that the shop (a Suzuki Dealership?) can't troubleshoot your bike without a donor bike, raises questions about their competence. :O You can't really assume they didn't touch any of the balance linkage. Get your gauges back and check it out. :devious

Based on my experience (which is not extensive BTW :dowhat), most times, whenever there is a surge at a specific RPM range, you can count on a fueling issue or TB balance problem. Since you tested it without the PC in the loop and still experienced the surge, it is time to balance the vacuum.
 

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:stupid Balance the throttle bodies and then check the TPS again.
 

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Any luck yet Aaron? I had a bad surge problem at about 3000rpm, when my tps was out of adjustment. i'm no mechanic but the first time I tried setting the tps it took me a week of thinking and trying to get it right, with a bit of help from the forum and Harry.
 

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Soon as I read this I thouight TB Balance - I see I'm not the only one. My bike is doing a similar thing after working under the tank. Although the TB's weren't touched (although the airbox was removed) they do seem to be very sensitive and need balancing occasionally for no apparent reason - this will be the second time I've had to balance them in 5 years - IIRC the previous was after removing the airbox for modding and to replace the link-pipe seals....:O
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Cheers, for the ideas guys.
I have recommended that the bike shop guys do a balance check - not sure if they have done so yet.
(they already tried swapping the TPS for one out of a mates bike with no joy)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
SOLVED - The relay on the + mod had developed an intermittent fault!

This combined with not enough slack in the throttle cable had us hunting everywhere else.
A very simple solution but difficult (and unfortunately expensive) to diagnose.

I have now ripped out all the non stock wiring prior to re-fitting with nice new connectors. Will have to get a new map done for the PCIII once its all back together too.

Thanks to everyone for their input!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Eventually the bike wasnt starting at all. Which meant there were electrical issues as well. Stripped out the +mod and away she went.

The relay was located near the TPS and was obviously being knocked whenever clumsy big hands were working in that area. Weird that it happened at those particular RPM though.
I am now about to do the pair mod to get rid of all the other stuff in that area that isnt really needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well, I obviously spoke too soon. That will teach me to base the solution on what I was told by the mechanic. I just wanted to provide an update in case anyone else ever has this issue, hence ranting has been kept to a minimum.

I have successfully fixed my TL1000R. The problem was finally: - a blocked injector.

After picking the bike up and seeing how the mechanic was trying to keep the bike running, it was obvious that the bike did not sound right. Once I managed to get it out, it soon became obvious that the bike was
only running on one cylinder below 3000rpm, and that the idle was set at 2000rpm (factory is 1200) - I assume to keep the bike running.

Given that the notes stated a lot of electrical problems, I checked the coil and plugs. plug was wet, tried swapping coils and plugs - same problem. Spark was nice and blue though.
I then checked the balance and vacuum as the mechanic had mentioned some non stock running of the hoses. aside from the looping of the flapper valve hoses, the only thing "not stock" about how everything connected was the Suzuki "Pair Valve" which for some reason Suzuki does not note on its main Vacuum diagram.
What I did find was that the balance was way out - I corrected the balance and my original problem was back again - not smooth at 2500~rpm

As per the manual, and my suggestion to earlier on, I swapped the injectors over. Problem swapped sides- the front was now inconsistent.

I have now replaced the injectors with CBR1000 ones, re mapped and everything is running sweet. 'Mechanic' is now a four letter word in my house.
 

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Good to know, mate....thanks for update.
 
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