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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Its been a while but am always popping on to see how things are going. In a nutshell need help as getting sweet FA in regards to progress. Ive been in contact with Stu (ring in) and Tony ( Six5) and have helped lots, but Its stumping us. Thought ok, see if can get maybe something out of left feild someone may suggest. Story so far.
Have rebuilt this engine from ground up, this is second one, with the first rebuild having no probs, but this one...stumped.
OK so its been rebuilt, wiring tape all removed and re covered, put on bike and all connections appear good and bike lights up as it should. When go to hit starter button, it just cranks and cranks but will not fire.
so , dealer mode, no codes, found injectors were not spraying, wried back up in correct sequence and got mist going. fuel flow test get around 55 mls. fuel pump is new and all cleanded and filter clean. I even took of tank and cleanded and relined it and thats all clean and good. Cleanded all rails etc to injectors. Tested spark plugs ( new irridium) got spark. even with a tester it lights up the bulb. battery is lithium with corect voltage with key and cranking , sits around 12.8 then down to 10.6 when cranking. ive tested all connectors as per manual and get readings that are consistent and nothing to indicate faulty. The spark plug leads have even been trimmed and new caps ( i have not tested or how to if its a weak spark). Ive taken off covers and re set shims and are all good. I even rotated to FT mark about 10 times to ensure i set the cams on TDC and not on the power stroke, and all line up as they should. Ive swapped over ECU from a TL that starts and still same. New FP relay added and ive been swapping parts off my TL that work, to this bike and still just cranks. IVe tried starter spray in TB when fully opended and no ignition, apart from a loud bang out the back of the pipes. Ive tested wiring and there is nothing to suggest any breaks etc that i can tell..., but have ordered new connectors to fit. But in saying that, not the best to testing and understanding wiring with a multimeter. Ive checked ground wire all good, i dont have any corosion to starter relay and is all solid. no fuses damaged, nothing...Just no codes but the F1 light on solid, so indicates engine will not start...at a loss on what to actually check now...

The only thing that has been done to the engine , is the air box mod and the hoses deleted that are not required...

So im looking for possible ideas to check as done searching on here, and nothing is bringing me closer to get it going....
 

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The Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow Moderator,
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The TL will never start on full throttle, the ECU doesn't like that. Try closed throttle and fast idle lever on. Then a quick squirt of petrol into both throttle bodies and then try starting it. It should run for a few seconds.

When the throttle bodies have been removed and the petrol drained from them they can end up air locked at the injectors as the return line back to the tank only bleeds the main rails and the air doesn't easily bleed through the injectors. So just try and add a permanent live to the pump to keep it running longer than 5 seconds and check the flow is good from return pipe back to the tank which will confirm the fuel pressure regulator is working.

Make sure the airbox and coolant sensor wiring plugs are not connected to the wrong sensor, usually green one to airbox and grey one to thermostat body. That shouldn't stop it starting but it never comes off the choke map as the air temp sensor never gets above 65DegC

If cam timing is 180 Deg out on the rear cylinder it would still start but only run on the front cylinder

So basically if a bit fuel put down each throttle body does make it almost start then its an electrical problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ok thanks, will try that. Running the live on the FP Relay, and little bit of fuel in both. Did have a look and im goina to have a look this weekend, but ntoiced on my drawing which Six eluded to, im wondering when ive re wired in and out under the TB, i havent accidentally connected rear to front and vice versa coil connectors....i dont think so, as there is a bit of distance and would be hard to, but looking at all options....will see how i go and report back thanks (ignore the red square and arrowwas highlighting this to another member,)
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well sam, latest , i just unhooked and swapped the connectors over from the coils...hit starter , and coffed a little bit, and after a few seconds it fired up, just used the idle lever, no throttle, and it then revved to high and turned the key off...at same time the normal clunkety clunk when you switch it off, saw no codes , so thats good...and then hit the button again, and just get a loud click , not the shims, or FP click type click, but louder click in and around front cylinder /starter motor...still primes as normal...so back to square 1, but at least got it to run..no codes, ...at least a little bit poisitive..lol
 

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The Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow Moderator,
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If revs went too high then once running check Fast Idle is set to 2000 rpm or check tickover knob if still revving too high with fast idle backed off.

Clunking when turning off is quite common, it's the starter gear where the sprag clutch grabs it for starting which has started to get worn and the sprag clutch dog bones that grip it don't release smoothly. Not a problem that will fail or anything, just that frustrating clunk when you turn it off.

The starter relay is to the left of the front cylinder, so just check the connections and very importantly the 4 wire connector block onto the relay as they corrode and melt/fail quite often.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
starter relay all good...prob is , all testing are fine, and then tested starter motor out of engine, and runs, once back in, nope..., thats the large click...its not turning it, so the starter motor is unable to turn...and then turning it by hand anti clockwise, it reaches a point and jams... so took generator cover off, to check if starter and idle gear somehow dislodged of jammed, and all spin freely by hand and moving starter wheel...but turning by crank bolt, it jams. , so ended up getting it to the RT, and took rear cylinder cover off incase cam chains jumped, but they were fine, and then took the front off ..i finished there...so tom ill take the intake cam out of the front cylinder to see cam chain etc and how that is..

Im unsure, but can you undo the cam tensioner at the front and re tension , as engine is in bike. Ill look at cam chains maybe its jumped off and binding maybe, if then move to the clutch basket and take that off to see .....hope i find why its jamming on the rotation....( im being positive its not a vlave) oh the joys...and just as fininshed..noted fluid at base of front forks..lol..bloody bikes !
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
so update for looks like anyone....so i ended up having to take cams all off to relieve valve pressure , and was able to hand crank no jams, and looks like nil damage. it appears though the cam chain has jumped and thats waht the jam was , so took front all off, and began to reset. After re doing and rotations and marks all lining up as per manual, it was time to put cams on...set first at TDC as per this pic then put cams in...

then rotate 360 again at TDC for the rear and all lined up

after putting on cams and then rotating again to see if they all line up..the rear lines up as per diagram

but here is the front, and no matter hom many rotations i do, the front will never line up , or which is odd and i dont know why..the int and ex rotate exactly the same, so the lobes will always mirror themselves and move identical ...in below, you can see faintly the white mark for the 2 cam gear lines up with the internal mark at FT...its got me going fkn bonkers...

this is how it is supposed to be with the lobes at around 10 and 2 oclock, but mine are not and cannot get them...


so this cld be a remove out of frame...but walked away had a headache...will have a think ...
 

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Moyston,
Please don't forget to add a conclusion to this thread, so the next guy will know what the issues were. :)

Indeed, your thread title is correct. They were not "ordinary problems." ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes, with the help of you and sam and Stu, it was nutted out which lead onto areas of checking.....in the end upon checking there were lots of things checked. With the restrapping of the wiring harness, which made it tight, there are 2 connectors that branch off onto the coils resepctively. these connectors may look the same, but one of them has a yellow/black wire, and this connector goes to coil number 2. checked wiring diagram and I had them around the wrong way as when placed in engine area, just assumed and swapped over and the bike started!..yippee!..but this caused another prob as what appears to have happended,was then the cam chain jumped an internal gear tooth, which threw the timing out, and by chance checked these. To surprise, its like the cam face and moved on the shaft due to the force of it being jammed and never was right. Swapped over a diff cam and all lined up. In the pic below, same cams how they sit, same markings,with the one from the engine on the right hand side.
Automotive tire Gear Motor vehicle Rim Bicycle part

But when looking for above as pic below, the lobes were out .
Camera accessory Automotive tire Bicycle part Gear Rim

Once this was corrected, then had to do shims again, didnt matter how many rotations, all the markings all line up now, so start button was hit and bingo...idled and ran for first time ,
 
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