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Discussion Starter #41
TB Balancing Advice

It's unfortunate that we don't have a good sticky thread on TB balancing in the Frequent Mods Forum, in view of how often this discussion comes up. If a good reference were documented somewhere, I might be less inclined to give someone the wrong instructions next time.
That's what I'm saying. All forum members have been encouraging me to do the TB sync for the longest time. But except for the knowledgeable responses in this thread and others like it, I haven't had a lot of info to help guide me thru the process. And the computers where I work block a lot of the "photobucket" images on this forum. So I don't get to see all the posted pics of setups, tubing, hardware, etc.
Several members recommended the 2-cycle engine oil. But as soon as I started pouring it in... I knew something was wrong. I let it set all night to try to get the fluid to settle. But it was still coated on the side where I poured it in. And maybe the cold weather doesn't help (~50 degrees!).

So I'm going to attempt the TB sync again. Hopefully Monday or Tuesday. I'd like all the advice I can get before I do it again right here in this thread.
I'm planning the same setup...
ruler.jpg
but with more flexible tubing. And I'll plug the tubing right onto the TB nipples. I'll use the single nipple on the front TB and the bottom nipple on the rear TB. And I'll buy some Automatic Transmission Fluid unless someone has a better suggestion.

1) Should I poke a hole or install anything into the tubing?
2) Is Automatic Trans Fluid the best fluid?
3) Is there any way for me to hook something up to the tubing that will prevent fluid from being sucked into the TB's?
4) I understand most use 1/4" tubing. Would 3/16" be too small an opening? Or would that be better for a tighter seal on the nipples?

Any other advice on how to make the setup more effective (especially in colder weather) please let me know...
 

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Discussion Starter #42
...You also haven't mentioned whether or not you changed out your fuel filter.
I have not changed the fuel filter or anything fuel related because the bike performs much better above 4k RPM's. Now that I know there are 2 sets of fuel injectors, I may try getting them cleaned. But I've got to get the bike back to "normal" first. Actually, it seems there are a lot of changes to the bike around 4k RPM's. So I've got plenty of exploring to do once I get this TB sync done right.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Can someone look on Amazon and let me know what tubing would be best? I've checked at my local Petco and Petsmart but they don't have anything clear AND 1/4". I just don't want to buy the wrong stuff again.
 

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Go to Lowes or Home Depot for the tubing.
I got the meter stick or however length it is & the tubing there.

& as far as getting whatever liquid you want in there.
Just make sure the tubing is long enough.
Put one end in the liquid & suck it through with your mouth on the other end & stop when both sides are evenly about 25 to 35% of the way up the ruler.

As for getting the liquid to settle evenly.
Its easy.
Go outside, grab the ends of the tubing and swing that sum bitch around in circles, so it pushes the liquid to the bottom of the ruler.

As long as its all taped up good enough.

If you use Trans fluid.
DO NOT leave it out in the sunlight for a day or two.
I forgot mine outside in the sun & it went from the normal Red to a light see through red.
 

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If you find a friend with a computer that lets u see the thread you will learn what you need
 

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6-5 I think I need to spend some more time on my web site you are right.

damn and I was just being a smart arse with the mercury thing.

good to see I'm not the only one who puts info to the acid test :cheers

:whipping the ring-in :
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Ok, looks like I can perform a better TB sync with the right tubing and some transmission fluid. But what do I do if the bike is running like CRAP?
Is there a default TB sync position? Or some way to manually get the TB sync close? I can barely get the thing to idle and it's backfiring like crazy. I'd rather not go through the time it takes to get the bike up to the operating temp while it's running so bad.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Also, on closer inspection today, I noticed there are no plugged nipples on the rear TB. Manual looks like all nipples on the right side are supposed to be connected to something. And only one nipple on the left (rear TB) should be connected to the vacuum system. The manual suggests both TB's should have a capped nipple on the LEFT side. This may be one of many reasons why my first TB sync went so poorly. This may also be a reason why the bike is running so poorly now. I will try to trace all vac lines and make sure they line up with the manual before performing another TB sync. This may be another thing the previous owner botched when putting the bike back together after the chrome job. :(
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Another question... Why would I have a breather hose connected to both sides of my airbox...
When (according to the manual) it looks like the right side, by the IATS should be capped?? pg 4-55
Does anyone else have a breather hose attached to both sides of their airbox?
breather.jpg
 

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Also, on closer inspection today, I noticed there are no plugged nipples on the rear TB. ..... I will try to trace all vac lines and make sure they line up with the manual before performing another TB sync. This may be another thing the previous owner botched when putting the bike back together .... :(
If you were running with open vacuum ports, that could be a large part of the problem you have encountered. :yes

Once you can verify that the vacuum line routing agrees with the manual, you will be at a good starting point.

During your inspection, actually feel the vacuum lines. I have had one that was split longitudinally, and it wasn't visible from just looking at it.



Another question... Why would I have a breather hose connected to both sides of my airbox...
When (according to the manual) it looks like the right side, by the IATS should be capped?? pg 4-55
....
The US market (and one or two others) use what Suzuki calls a PAIR valve to inject fresh air into the exhaust manifold to burn off unburned hydrocarbons. That port on the bottom, right side of the air box is where the PAIR system gets its 'fresh' air. If it is not capped it will not affect the performance. If there is no hose connected to it, likely the PAIR valve has been removed from your TLR. It is one of the first things most members remove since they are not required to pass any emissions testing anymore. Most other markets don't use the PAIR valve, so that may explain why it is not shown in that section of the manual. The PAIR system is discussed in a separate appendix in the back of the manual.

On a related topic, the hose on the bottom, left side of the air box you asked about previously is connected to the crankcase vent. This is the hose responsible for depositing an oil mist in the air box. I know you were concerned about the cracking on that hose, but it is not that critical, and it will not affect the performance of the engine one way or the other in your situation. It is not a "vacuum" hose per se. It merely allows the crankcase to vent inside the air box so that any oil mist that does get by the separator will theoretically be ingested and burned by the engine, as opposed to vented freely to the atmosphere.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Thanks Six5. Back when I had a Hayabusa, I remember considering the PAIR removal mod. But it didn't seem like the work was worth the benefit. I'll leave both breather hoses the way they are.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Interesting bit of news... I spoke with the previous owner today. He only owned the bike 3 months. But the guy he bought it from is supposed to be the original owner. So here's what I found out:
1) The original owner said he never did any work on his own but went to a certified Suzuki mechanic. If this is the case... the "mechanic" needs to be shot! With the wrong sensors, connectors, and who knows what else under the tank.
2) The original owner had the "whole fuel system redone." What that means? I have no idea. But for now, I'll assume that means the fuel pump, filters, and injectors are all in good shape and are not a part of my low RPM issues.
So I'll focus on the vacuum system, TB sync, and TPS. Once all that is right. I may just ride 'er the way she is...
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Speaking of the vacuum system, what is the "JET" referring to in the image on page 4-60 of the manual? I've seen several different attempts at modifying vacuum system after the airbox mod. Some even cap off the top port of the VCSV. But before I start moving vac lines around, I'm wondering what exactly a "JET" is...
jet.jpg
And where would I buy new vac tubing if I did find cracks or leaks? Or can I just use the scrap tubing that used to run to the actuators top of the airbox?
 

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Speaking of the vacuum system, what is the "JET" referring to in the image on page 4-60 of the manual? .... But before I start moving vac lines around, I'm wondering what exactly a "JET" is...
The jets in the vacuum lines are little plastic slugs with tiny holes in them. They serve as restrictors. The numbers next to the jets in the diagram indicate the diameter of the orifice in millimeters. The jets limit the movement of air through the lines, and thus 'damp' the pressure fluctuations that are occurring in the throttle bodies. In theory, the vacuum pulses in the TBs need to tamed tamed or smoothed to provide a more stable vacuum level at the associated sensors. Since the IAP sensor plays a large part in controlling the fuel mix at low revs, it will provide better info to the ECM if its output is not jumping around with each stroke of the piston. Likewise with the fuel pressure regulator, it should keep the pressure at a 'fixed' level above the average vacuum pressure in the TBs. The inline 'jets' are part of the effort to accomplish that task.

The black can-shaped vacuum dampers (VD) are the other component that helps the system control the vacuum pulses. They act as a 'vacuum reservoir' to fill in the 'gaps' when the pressure drops in the line. They create a smoother average vacuum level, much the same as a capacitor does in a filtering circuit.






And where would I buy new vac tubing if I did find cracks or leaks? ....?
Here is one option on ebay. Seems like a decent price for 10 feet of line - even in several sizes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6MM-1-4-ID-BLUE-FULL-SILICONE-FUEL-AIR-VACUUM-HOSE-LINE-PIPE-TUBE-10-FOOT-FEET-/261943713456?hash=item3cfd0fdeb0:g:WrsAAOSwMmBVi4zi&vxp=mtr


Also, your local automotive parts store should have vacuum line options.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
If I still have both dampers connected... Would I need to put the jets in new vac tubing??
And is all the vac tubing the same inner and outer diameter?
 

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Discussion Starter #58
I realized today the PAIR valve is what's taking up the extra vac nipple on the rear TB. Looking at all the diagrams... Seems my vac system is laid out fine. Maybe one line is on the rear tb that should be on the front. But I don't guess that matters. All vac tubing looks and feels in good condition. I'm hoping another attempt at tb sync will at least get the bike running "normal" again.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Update:
I had some time last night to work on some new tubing for the next TB sync. While letting the transmission fluid settle in the tubing I decided to try warming the bike up. If you remember, the last time I ran the thing (after my first attempt at TB sync) the bike was backfiring a ton and sounded like a one cylinder popcorn machine! While trying to fire it up last night I got 'er to run for maybe 10 seconds. No backfiring. But still sounded like just one cylinder. After that, I could not get it started again. Killed the battery after 5 min of trying to get it started. The rear plug was easy to reach so I pulled that out. The tip of it was soaking wet with black fluid. I was worried it might be oil but it was pretty thin. I'm assuming it's just gas and some kind of soot. I've had wet plugs on lawnmowers so I figured maybe the engine was flooded somehow. I went ahead and pulled off all plastics, moved the radiator forward, and pulled out the front plug. Oddly enough, the front plug came out a little too easily. The tip was black but all the threads were too. Maybe the plug wasn't in as tight as it should have been. And the gaps were all set to nearly 0.8 mm. I'm sure that's my fault from when I put the plugs in a few months ago. After letting the plugs dry off a while I plugged 'em back in and tried hit the starter a few times but I couldn't see any spark. I turned the lights off in the garage, still couldn't see a spark. So I'll get some new plugs in the morning, get the gap set to 0.6-0.7 and try starting the bike up again. What could cause the plugs to get so wet?
Another thing I did last week was remove more vac tubing. I already had the airbox mod done and both actuators (and vac tubing) removed. Now I've got just about all the vac tubing with the red line on it. Just about everything on the left side except the IAPS. I left the VCSV connected (electronically) and just plugged both nipples. I've read many posts that say this usually helps their bikes run better. However, I have kept all the tubing on the shelf in case I want to connect the VCSV, orange valve, and the other damper back as it was.

My questions after this update are:
- Can FI bikes flood from too much throttle the same as old carbureted bikes, lawnmowers, etc?
- Is there any special technique to seeing the spark on these plugs? (NGK-CR9EK) I can't hold the clutch, start button, and the plug at the same time to FEEL the spark.
- Would the hotter plugs (NGK-CR8EK) help to burn off any extra fuel, seafoam, 2-cycle engine oil or whatever may still be in the motor?
- Is it possible removing more of the vacuum system could have caused the ECU to run even richer? I've never flooded any of my FI bikes before. Even in colder weather when it takes longer to start. So I was shocked to see wet plugs on my TLR!
 

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Use the CR8EK plugs.
NOT the CR9EK's.

My bike wouldnt fire up AT ALL after fixing my injectors.
Pulled them out & they were Exactly the same as you described.

I tossed my old 8's in & it fired RIGHT up!

I couldnt See any spark from the 9's but I did shock myself with one to test it.
The 8's was just merely a Lucky guess as everything else I checked was good.

Since you described your plugs the same as mine, they are Fouled.

Go snag the 8's & "IF" the starting problem is from the 9 plugs, I am Certain it will fire up with the 8's.

& as far as Flooding it.
When I removed the One rear plug & put the 8 in, it was immediately after cranking it on the 9's & soaked it.
& it still fired up on the 8 with no issues.
 
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