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Who cares.

The president is doing what he feels is required to protect this country. I'm with him all the way.
 

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You mean to tell me that people that come here to the US to Kill Americans, or are captured abroad, planning to kill Americans, should not be afford the same rights that I have as an American? Thats crazy.. Now read that closely. How does this sound? crazy? That is what this is all about, thats what the opposition wants..
 

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why is this on two threads?
 

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That's fine, so long as all elected members of the federal government are subject to the interogation techniques outlined in said bill... if and when they are ever EVER UNDER INVESTIGATION...

bet the bill gets changed soooo frickin fast, or we get some straight answers out of congresscritters like that butt smack Foley.

Who knew what when? After an hour of standing on empty coke bottles I bet we find out.
 

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Nice one rifleman! I agree wholeheartedly. I like Jello Biafra's take on some of these things from a few years back. "You ever notice how when they try to spread freedom over there they push hard to try to take it away from over here?"

:confused

.
 

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Interrogation methods of enemy combatants have nothing to do with the civil rights of Americans citizens living here. The terrorist have sophisticated international networks. The threat is real gentlemen and they don't play by any rules.

I think your being paranoid. What Bush wants to do is no different than what we and our allies did during the Second World War. If anything we are showing more constraint and have much more oversight now than we did back then.
 

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Big difference is:
He or someone he designates can make the call on who he can subject this to. Not an independent panel, not a court, just the executive without oversight. This is power given to one person that over rides what the US Constitution has guaranteed. Yeah, I'm paranoid. Paranoid about stupid decisions that people that are overwhelmed by fear make. Fear makes people do stupid things. I am not easily scared, but am scared by people who cannot control their emotions & make decisions based on FEAR. It is the control tool of the 20th century. Some use it at every opportunity...

Continuing to give power to one individual under the guise of "safety" is scary. Talk to the 80 year old people you know that lived in Germany or Italy back in the 30's or 40's for a little education on restrictions of freedom due to FEAR. And the FEAR that was pounded down their throats. Back in the 50's & 60's we got the same tired story about having to have FEAR. If you didn't you were an idiot or a wuss. But then it was of communists. They were everywhere! Fear, fear, fear. We were told if we pulled out of Vietnam the entire Indochina region would fall like dominos to communist regimes. We had that pounded down our throats by some of the same strategists that are involved in this latest twist on the FEAR game. Did Indochina go that route? Nope. Oops. They made a "little" mistake in their assesment that cost over a hundred fifty thousand young Americans their lives. sorry. Do a Google search & find out what jobs cheney & rummy had in the Nixon administration.

The only thing I fear is the fearful people themselves!

Control your fear, don't sell out your constitution because you can't.


:)
 

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You're not going to be randomly plucked from the street and interrogated I'm sure. I'm betting the CIA would have good reason if they're interrogating and / or "torturing" under theses new laws. It wont be done to inncocents.

(A link to an AU paper. :dowhat)
 

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voodootwin said:
Who cares.

The president is doing what he feels is required to protect this country. I'm with him all the way.
I guess that's what a lot of North Coreans are saying just now considering their nuclear weapons program. I think they are as right as you. :coocoo

Steve TLS said:
You're not going to be randomly plucked from the street and interrogated I'm sure. I'm betting the CIA would have good reason if they're interrogating and / or "torturing" under theses new laws. It wont be done to inncocents.
Probably as right as they've been about all the (so far) released prisoners of Guantanamo? No proof, no trial, no nothing but beeing imprisoned for several years.
 

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Well spoken Dob.

Now, can we have these two threads merged? :O
 

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Josephd14 said:
You mean to tell me that people that come here to the US to Kill Americans, or are captured abroad, planning to kill Americans, should not be afford the same rights that I have as an American? Thats crazy.. Now read that closely. How does this sound? crazy? That is what this is all about, thats what the opposition wants..
Well... If you already KNOW (read has proven without doubt) that the above is true - that those people really have planned to kill Americans (and why just Americans? Are their lifes worth than others????), you would not need any harsch interrogation methods. You could use the regular judical system to prosecute them.
 

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Merged, but it's put things out of sync.
 

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Crotchrckttl said:
Some people just dont get it.. we need to rid the world of these muslim extremist that want to KILL me and YOU....


















Well, that does help to put it in perspective a bit, doesn't it.
 

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Crotchrckttl said:
Some people just dont get it.. we need to rid the world of these muslim extremist that want to KILL me and YOU....
And the 99.9% of them that does not... Will they be your colateral damage?

I cannot for one second defend the violent behaviour that has risen in some islamic regions because of the danish Muhammed cartoons or the pope's last statement. The latter is kind of ironic even. :coocoo

The problem with your reasoning Crotch is that your statement is exactly what was written on those posters in your pictures. You say to "...need to rid the world of these...", they say "...behead those that...". What's the difference? What makes you right?

I just noticed one of the pictures above with a poster saying "Freedom go to hell", and boy is he right.
 

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Mr. DOBALINA said:
Big difference is:
He or someone he designates can make the call on who he can subject this to. Not an independent panel, not a court, just the executive without oversight. This is power given to one person that over rides what the US Constitution has guaranteed. Yeah, I'm paranoid. Paranoid about stupid decisions that people that are overwhelmed by fear make. Fear makes people do stupid things. I am not easily scared, but am scared by people who cannot control their emotions & make decisions based on FEAR. It is the control tool of the 20th century. Some use it at every opportunity...

Continuing to give power to one individual under the guise of "safety" is scary. Talk to the 80 year old people you know that lived in Germany or Italy back in the 30's or 40's for a little education on restrictions of freedom due to FEAR. And the FEAR that was pounded down their throats. Back in the 50's & 60's we got the same tired story about having to have FEAR. If you didn't you were an idiot or a wuss. But then it was of communists. They were everywhere! Fear, fear, fear. We were told if we pulled out of Vietnam the entire Indochina region would fall like dominos to communist regimes. We had that pounded down our throats by some of the same strategists that are involved in this latest twist on the FEAR game. Did Indochina go that route? Nope. Oops. They made a "little" mistake in their assesment that cost over a hundred fifty thousand young Americans their lives. sorry. Do a Google search & find out what jobs cheney & rummy had in the Nixon administration.

The only thing I fear is the fearful people themselves!

Control your fear, don't sell out your constitution because you can't.


:)
Wow, I almost NEVER agree with Gerhard politically, but I think he has a valid point this time around.

I am not suggesting that we don't use methods neccessary to get the information we need from terrorists to prevent more attacks, but I do think that at some point we need to look at the ability for one person to make a call like this with no check or balance in place.

The point that Gerhard makes about the Nazi party in Germany/Stalinism/McCarthyism is a good one. We do not need the witch hunts of the late '50's-early '60's again. However, we do need the ability to protect this nation (sorry Europe, you are on your own) and think it is a fine line to walk. The difference between being too politically correct and being a police state may just be the attack itself.

We certainly can't say that the current leadership here or the next generation of leadership has an easy job.
 
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