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Scooter hottie chauffeur
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright, for those who don't know. Illinois requires you to have a "FOID" card. Firearms Owners ID card. It is basically a "background check" card. You fill out the form, send it in and they send you a card that lets you purchase firearms, ammunition, ammunition reloading components... touch a firearm... say the word "gun" what ever...

So yesterday the fricking Gurnee police, along with the Lake county SWAT team and some other "ghastapo" mother fuggers serve a search warrant on "Tank" Johnsons house....

Because he has 6 guns... and no FOID card...

now either he had one and it has expiered, or he purchased the guns out of state or illegally (which they haven't charged him with anything other then not having the FOID card.)

OK folks. How many other Constitutionally enumerated rights do you have to get a permit from the government to exersize your right?

this is total bull, how much time, money and effort did they spend to "bust" someone who had a paperwork snafu? could that money, manpower, and time be better spent finding and busting the fuggers that steal motorcycles and part them out on Egay?

ca'mon, this kinda bull is INSANE. You don't need a FOID in Indiana, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Kentucky......

total bull cheese.:banghead
 

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I totally agree, the country is in a sad state of affairs indeed. Do they put half that much effort into catching those who rape children and do other things clearly violating the rights of innocent citizens?
 

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hey

Alittle different then guns, Here in charleston SC the town recently organized a special crime force to go after illegal gambling. FBI, state police and town police organized together. There first victim was a home in mt pleasant, owned by a 68 year old women. The gambling was a $10 buy in for her and her retirement group to play texas hold'm. Ten people were arrested, the youngest in the group was 64. All of the people were elderly women. The police netted only one hundred bucks. The article in the paper said that they had been watching the group for a couple of months. They put all of these resources into busting a group of retired women playing cards. So ya I hear you guys about wasted resources of local law enforcement. Best part of all of it the lady who owned the house was the majors mother.

Mean while fatal shooting's in the charleston area is at a all time high!

Nicholas
 

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Scooter hottie chauffeur
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
well that to me is the problem.

everyone supports law enforcement if they catch the fuggers that kill, or rape your friends/relatives. If they catch the guys that steal your car, bike, stuff out of your house...

when they grab people for seat belt violations. traffic violations... bull shit piddly crap...

they loose respect from the populace really quick...

sad part is there seems to be money in the traffic and paperwork crap... but no real money in the "real" crime stopping.

go figure.
 

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Scooter hottie chauffeur
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was stationed at the naval base in Charlston, SC for 3 years, know all about Mt. Pleasent.

total bull to spent that much time to bust old ladies and a hundred bux...

but it's easy, it's simple, and how many old ladies are going to blow their knees off with a shotgun???

ca'mon, if ya'll in law enforcement want respect.....

frickin EARN it!!!! like the rest of us.
 

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law enforcement

Hey

I forgot to mention, the funniest part about the old lady gambling ring is to validate what the cops were doing, they actually put pictures on the front page of the local paper of the old ladies handcuffed walking into the courthouse. I will see if I can find the picture

How long ago were you in charleston, I have only been here 3 years and it has changed so much.

Nicholas
 

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Ya know Shay's Rebelion was over much lesser offenses on the part of the government - IMHO the american people as a whole have lost their apitite for freedom and have been/are in the process of letting it be taken from them at an alarming rate. Sadly I don't know of anywhere else that is in much better shape:(
 

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Why should you be allowed to break some laws and not others? :confused Isn't breaking the law breaking the law :dowhat Full Stop.

Why should it be ok to gamble illegally or drive with no seatbelt, or own 6 guns without the correct card???

Freedom freedom freedom is freedom the right to break the law?

I don't understand this freedom freedom freedom stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
amen to that BP. little by little the prolitariat is becomming cattle to mill. where is the fighting spirit... for shame for shame.

Nick. I was there from 89 to 92... Got to experiance Hugo.. had friend that lived in Mt. Pleasent. I lived in Goose Creek, just south of the mall... My name is on the board at the "Back Stage Deli"........ twice:devious

I looked on Google earth.... looks like the base is half gone...... go figure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
the law should be based upon what is dangerous... and what isn't...

"tank" Johnson wasn't going to hurt anyone... the law is a technicality that now places an upstanding citizen in peril..... it's a silly law... and even more silly when the US has the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution that enumrates our right to " a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Ca'mon. You can disagree with the right that people in the US should be able to keep and bear arms... but you can't disagree with the fact that it is in our constitution...... and this is a clear voilation of "Tank" Johnson's rights...

if they want to repeal the 2nd amendment... fine, go ahead, try.... but so long as it still exists in the Constitution of the United States of America....

.... Respect it.

simple, easy... lawful.

the reason Gambling is illegal is because the government wants to make sure they get their cut... It's fine as long as the taxes are paid.. Las Vagas, Atlantic City... Hell it legal in Illinois so long as you have a license from the State and pay the taxes....

so it's not really that gambling is bad, wrong, evil, ... it's that the state doesn't get it's cut from the little old ladies

total bull shit........ total bull shit..........

and America was built on lack of bull shit.

kinda sad we will sit for it today.



Why should you be allowed to break some laws and not others? :confused Isn't breaking the law breaking the law :dowhat Full Stop.

Why should it be ok to gamble illegally or drive with no seatbelt, or own 6 guns without the correct card???

Freedom freedom freedom is freedom the right to break the law?

I don't understand this freedom freedom freedom stuff.
 

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But whther the law is a stupid one or not, it is the law. The public shouldn't be able to decide which ones it will obey and which ones it wont. If you break it, be prepared to suffer the consequences. Just because who ever is breaking one thinks it is a trivial law doesn't give them the right the break it.

If I'm reading this correctly, not all states require a FOID, who voted the law makers into power in the states that require a FOID?

If everyone had the required permits, drove around with seatbelts on, didn't gamble illegally they'd be planty of cops available to go after the "real" crims, the one that break other laws.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Steve... I don't know of a single American that says, "track down the gambling old ladies, find the rapist, murderers, and motorcycle thieves later"

it is the state that sets those priorities, it is the state that decides to chooses arresting and procicuting gambling little ol ladies over tracking down theives and killers.

If we had an infinate supply of law enforcement, I would agree with you. but to squander resorces on piddly crap.... and yes I will concead that we as americans should tell our reps to bin the bull shit laws... but our law makers feel that if they can pass a law, they can claim that they are "doing something"

first off, law enforcement shoud choose what they can do that has the most impact on sociatial safety... secondly we as americans should demand that bullshit laws be stricken from the books

we don't have an infinate supply of law enforcement...... They should forget the trivial crap and focus resorces on things that most people are effected by, most people approve of... most people want done.

find the guys that stole my GSXR1100G off the naval base in Orlando 14 years ago... Find the guys that killed someone, raped someone's sister...

set priorties that don't involve income to the department or lack of danger to officers, if they wanted to do something safe, law enforcment isn't it...

the laws in this country are supposed to be made at the approval of the governed... and I'm telling you that the goverened do NOT approve of tossing little ol ladies in jail, espically when real criminals are not being apprenhended and locked up.

it's really a lack of priorities, not a lack of respect for the law.
 

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They're stuck in a catch 22.

They can't let the trivial stuff go and they have to be seen doing something about it too. If they ignored it, you woud have a state full of gambling houses in residential areas and everyone driving around without seatbelts etc. If the press make a big deal out of it, all the better perhaps people wont think they can get away with breaking what they call trivial bs laws.

Is talking on a cell phone while driving trivial? Seems every 2nd person on the road is doing it here and it's illegal. It wont be so trivial for my family if one of them takes me out on the bike. I bet the people talking on the phone think it's only a bullshit trivial money making law - until they run over a pedestrian, hit a cyclist or at best run up another cars arse.

I can't see where the line should be drawn about what's trivial and what's not. Bottom line is if I decide to break what I think is a trivial law and get busted - then I broke the law and have to suffer the consequences and not say while you were busting me for having a broken brake light some druggie just robbed and killed someone.
 

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i would like to add a small spin on this subject.......that beng the fact that there is less common sense in the world as a whole today there used to be a lot more pride in ownership seems to me that this is a common thread among the people that frequent this place called the zone...a willingness to try and fix it your self or put time money and energy into making something personal ...different from all the rest..... yet the same. far to many people just go out and buy a gun just to have it some say for protection from all the bad people who have guns ....how many of those same people actually know how to take proper care of said gun...take the time to go out and practice using it properly taking the time to disassemble and maintain it not just put it on a shelf in the closet just in case...i choose the hand gun as it is a common idea...but there is so much more that is bought used till it fails to function then thrown away and we are running out of places to throw it just in case anyone is lookingwe have sold ourselves short no one else to blame how many of you out there try to fix the things in your possesion that fail to function i know this is not easy i'm not trying to say that it is ...i just think we as a species have all but screwed ourselves and probably the planet from our own short sightedness and we still don't see it, we are still killing each other for what they have that we don't whether it be food for another meal or that fine automobile or perhaps the other guy is the wrong color or maybe he thinks a little different than the local majority...guess i need to step down from this soap box didn't realise i had so much nothing to say...i guess alot of things in the world bug me sometimes...i'm goint to go get drunk now....you all have a nice evening...CW...out...


p.s. this will be in the privacy of my own home after a hard days work.....for some reason i feel intitled...good night...
 

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Lohman, Steve has a point, I consider the trivial shit, just a price to pay for riding fast, doing wheelies, etc. The law is the law, violate it at your own peril. Have "Tank" contact the NRA, if he wants, and I am sure they will throw their full resources into this.

The point Steve makes, is that the folks in Illinois elected the morons who enacted this law, seems some political action is now required.

We are free, but we are governed by laws written by our elected representatives. We do not have a right to violate any law, we do have a right to vote out these POS legislators who screw us over.

Don't get pissed, participate in the process and elect folks that support us. For what it is worth, generally Libs (I use it broadly, no offense intended) tend to be anti motorcycle rights regarding land use, health insurance, etc. Several have refused to respond to AMA questions over the years, Bush answered them. Several candidates do, be good to yourself and research those you vote for and ensure they are truly on your side. Then after they win, watch them like a hawk, and hold them accountable. It does help, and if more folks participate, it is a better government.

Steve is right about picking and choosing laws :coocoo
 

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Good points about the law Doug. If old ladies can be busted for having a small stakes card game, then the law needs to be changed. That is a Legislative issue. As far as seatbelt tickets go, the law is there for good reason, but if the punishment is more than nominal, that law needs revision too. I do agree that if more than nominal resources were put into taking down the old ladies, then the supervisory chain directing things in that particular police department has it's head up it's ass.

We can bitch about stuff like this, but we should keep in mind that cops deal with the dregs of society on a regular basis. Only the defective units in society have regular interaction with the cops. Normal productive people don't. Being a cop is a tough job and they have my respect. I don't like getting pulled for speeding and I have met some cops that are real assholes, but I have also met some, even through this board, who are great guys. NYCStripes on this board comes to mind as such a person.

For what it is worth, generally Libs (I use it broadly, no offense intended) tend to be anti motorcycle rights regarding land use, health insurance, etc. Several have refused to respond to AMA questions over the years, Bush answered them. Several candidates do, be good to yourself and research those you vote for and ensure they are truly on your side. Then after they win, watch them like a hawk, and hold them accountable. It does help, and if more folks participate, it is a better government.
:rant Time for some loyal dissent, coming from someone who calls himself a Republican and is a fiscal conservative. I believe Bush as ****ed up and that he has set the party back 50 years. If the Dems don't capitalize on this, well then they are just pathetic.

I voted for Bush in '00 based on MC related concerns and Republican affiliation. Now we have an unjustified war with no end in sight. To add insult to injury, Bush has corporate buddies who are getting rich off the war, with no apparent oversight on the private contracts being granted over there, all the while our service members are crippled for life and killed. It is absolutely reprehensible. Bush also apparently has difficulty "interpretating" the Geneva Convention, leading to more justified condemnation by the world community.

9/11 demanded an intelligent response. Iraq is tantamount to the blind swinging of a sloppy drunk in a fight. Iraq is a Middle Eastern country with religious zealot factions that hate each other. I also find it to be a bit of a problem that Iraq never attacked America and that it was never proven to this day that Saddam had ties to those who did. Saudi Arabia had more to do with 9/11 than Iraq, but we get a lot of oil from them. Anyway, our idea of "nation building" in Iraq is an expensive and wrong headed fantasy. The reality is that Iraq needs and will eventually get a harsh Saddam like dictator when we pull out. In the end, we will have expended a great deal of resources and sacrifice to install another Saddam, if not someone worse.

Top it off with a legacy of spiraling national debt that threatens to take down our economic future. It adds up to a president who has done more to destroy freedom and ruin this country in general than any other in American history. At this point all I can do is apologize to the world for voting for Bush in the first place. I never thought I'd say it, but hell, Daddy knows best social meddler Al Gore in '00 probably woulda been the lesser of the evils. :puke As for Kerry in '04, well, he was just too laughable I guess. What a missed opportunity by the Dems.

To finish my little tirade, I believe that to rise to the top in American politics, a candidate has to sell his soul to special interest groups, political action committees or corporate blackmail, or be part of an independently wealthy political dynasty. We need real people in office. Unfortunately, they are all busy, doing "real jobs". I try to do the right thing when I vote, but I have become pretty cynical. The founding fathers did an amazing job in setting up the balance of power in our government, but "clever" minds have been hard at work for many years to pervert it. The founding fathers would be very upset if they could see what American politics has become.
 

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Damn liberals..... damn republicans.......we need a good independant party vote for me in 08
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well I vote libertarian almost all the time... never a ghost chance hell that they will win... but at least my conscience is clear.

... but if any ever did, you would see some significant change...

the other thing is that the only way for a laws Constitutionality to be tested, is for said law to be broken... and brought before a court of law and argued.

ah well, it was a good farcus topic... was it not?:rant :) :boring

Damn liberals..... damn republicans.......we need a good independant party vote for me in 08
 

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:puke As for Kerry in '04, well, he was just too laughable I guess. What a missed opportunity by the Dems.
Wow, as a liberal republican :laugh or conservative democrat (fiscally conservatve, relatively liberal on social issues) I agree on so much of what Duken wrote. I get angry when I think about the lost opportunity the Dems had on '04. Unfortunately, our primary system tends to leave us with candidates who cater more to the extreme ends of their respective parties in order to get nominated. That's because the more extreme groups generally organize and vote in the primaries compared to more middle ground voters, aka independents.

BTW, what happened to republicans standing up for keeping gov't out of our lives? (thinking about the patriot act here) Re. business cronies, well, supposedly the gov't was going to be run more efficiently, like a business. :O How many business cut revenue (taxes) while increasing expenses and structural overhead? (spending) :O Or running huge trade deficits because people buy cheap crap and things they don't really need (made overseas) rather than save...that's a bill that the next generation will have to pay (that's for BP)

And if a war is worth fighting our President should be willing to ask for sacrifice from everyone, not just the armed forces... instead telling people to "go shopping..." Ahhh crap, now I'm getting worked up :banghead :banghead

[mission accomplished]
 

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Steve - The legal philosophy behind the inception and current legal framework in the US is very different from that in most all other countries in the world. The US is based on a Lockian worldview. As such, laws and indeed the legitimacy of the entire government are not taken for granted. Its believed that people have natural rights that exist completely independently of government and that the ONLY legitimate function of government is that which is necessary to prevent/punish the violation of those rights. The US constitution is intended to provide a specific application of Locke's philosophy to the government of our specific country.

All this to say, in the US, at least under the worldview held by the founders of the country, the fact that something is codified as law is not sufficient for it to be legally legitimate and citizens are not obligated (in theory) to follow it as law if it is either outside the scope of legitimate governmental action or in direct violation of an individual's natural rights. Thus, I disagree 100% with Doug's statement that you never have a right to violate a law - in fact, Law never has a right to violate natural law/rights. An individual does have a right and according to many of the founders an obligation to violate law not in accord with the Constitution or in violation of one's natural rights. Granted, our government has strayed so far from its original intent that it is likely not wise in terms of ones own personal wellbeing to challenge even illegitimate laws/government.

That's the jist of "freedom" as I use the term - the ability to exercise one's natural rights without worry of a coercive state interference and hopefully without much worry of interference on the part of other citizens. Madison, Mason, Jefferson et al strongly cautioned against blindly following governmental legislation and urged citizens to actively evaluate the laws and actions of their government and not to tolerate infringement of their natural rights by their government. The founders warned that without constant vigilance on the part of the citizens the government would without doubt began to overstep its bounds and if not promptly checked, would quickly loose sight of its moral limitations, gain power and be very difficult to bring under control.

Duken, for your last point, check out Frederick Hayek's "Why the Worst Get on Top" its basically a formal article that backs up exactly what you said.


In regard to the current political situation, public choice economics does an excellent job of explaining it all and providing a sound framework for considering the situation. Gordon Tullock's Primer in Public Choice is short and an easy read and gets the point across very well:thumbup IMHO anyone even a little interested in the way politics, voting and government should read it (BTW the work it summarizes won a Nobel prize in '86 - the prize winning work is long and complicated and not something most folks would want to try to understand - its really good stuff, but highly stylized and very long). .
 
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