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2002 Cagiva Navigator 1000
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there, guys! Greetings to all the international community of TL owners.
I have a Cagiva Navigator, which uses exactly the same engine as Suzuki TL 1000S. Mine has 50k km on the clock, and the timing chains started to wear out, the tensioners are almost all the way out(( My question is, if it's possible to change the timing chains without getting the engine out of the frame? I've heard there's a way to split the chain open with a chain riveting tool, then attach it to the new chain, also unriveted, then rotate the crank so the old chain pulls the new one all the way down to the lower sprocket, and then, when the new chain appears at the top, detach the old one and rivet the new chain permanently with the tool. Is this plausible? The complete teardown is not currently possible. Also, there's no genuine chain where I live. Are there any alternatives? I believe our timing chains have 92 links. However, there's a Suzuki DR650 timing chain at a reasonable price. But it's way longer, has like, 120links. Is it possible to unrivet the extra links and follow the above mentioned technique? Thanks In advance and good luck on the road everyone:)
 

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1998 TLS; 2001 TLR; 200X TLRSF
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Welcome to the forum!
I can't really provide any technical advice, other than it doesn't sound like a good idea.

However, now I am curious.....
Please post photos of the rivets and rivet tool you intend to use.

50K Km is not considered high mileage. Why not just replace the tensioners and reset?
 

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Have you inspected the rubbers that push against the chain ?

Maybe the cam tensioners were installed incorrectly causing premature wear of the rubbers ?
 

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Hi there, guys! Greetings to all the international community of TL owners.
I have a Cagiva Navigator, which uses exactly the same engine as Suzuki TL 1000S. Mine has 50k km on the clock, and the timing chains started to wear out, the tensioners are almost all the way out(( My question is, if it's possible to change the timing chains without getting the engine out of the frame? I've heard there's a way to split the chain open with a chain riveting tool, then attach it to the new chain, also unriveted, then rotate the crank so the old chain pulls the new one all the way down to the lower sprocket, and then, when the new chain appears at the top, detach the old one and rivet the new chain permanently with the tool. Is this plausible? The complete teardown is not currently possible. Also, there's no genuine chain where I live. Are there any alternatives? I believe our timing chains have 92 links. However, there's a Suzuki DR650 timing chain at a reasonable price. But it's way longer, has like, 120links. Is it possible to unrivet the extra links and follow the above mentioned technique? Thanks In advance and good luck on the road everyone:)

Wow!
Where do I start?
The cam chain is probably the most critical part of your motor. To access it easily requires top end strip and head removal. You will not get a riveting tool in there.
Now consider what could go wrong......
Lets assume you CAN get the riveter in there and you don't quite get a good crimp on the rivet, the chain separates and goes down into the cases and wraps around the crank with no room, result - likely damaged cases and stuffed crank/bearings. Now consider what we get further up the engine with the stationary cams and moving pistons - OUCH.

I would be removing the engine and pulling the heads off to do this. Yes it's costly as you will need new gaskets etc. Yes it takes time, but it is not hard to do.

Alternative to a completely shagged engine is a few dollars and careful replacement of the correct parts.
My TL had the motor pulled down by me at around 60K as I was curious about a slight noise (found out later the main clutch nut was about 16th of a turn loose. The timing chain was in perfect condition.

Ask yourself the question as to why the timing chain appears slack? They are designed NOT to stretch much over their life span.
65887

Good luck.
Cheers
Warren.
 

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2002 Cagiva Navigator 1000
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hey there, guys, thanks a lot for the replies! First of all, i've figured out thr cam chain are worn out just because it rattles too harsh, like a Benelli, lol. The sound is heard mostly about 4-5k RPM, it's definitely not a normal sound, because there are a few Suzuki V-STROM, which is the same motor, and none of them seem to sound so unpleasant.
So I put the rear cylinder to TDC (familiar with the procedure, I haven't screwed up anything))) and took of the tensioner, and it was ALL THE way out, save one or two clicks maybe, the front one, which is the long and brutal-looking, has the same story. So, I guess, the chains are worn, if the stock tensioners are all the way out? However, brother Twin2 has given me a good idea, maybe the chain guide is really the part which is worn. What else on earth can make a tensioner to extend if the chain is good?
I can also mention that pulling the engine apart completely is definitely not an option where I live, I guess I'm gonna have to sell the bike( The problem is that the noise gonna scare off any possible buyers. Whaddaya guys think about manual cam chain tensioners? Will it help? I work at the machinist's, so I can get them made for free.
And btw, here is the chain riveting tool I was talking about:
 

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There is another possibility.

That the tensioners where taken out and put back in without releasing the spring tension ?

Making them go all the way out, and worst sticking then back in fully extended putting huge unnecessary tension on the chains.

 

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Hey there, guys, thanks a lot for the replies! First of all, i've figured out thr cam chain are worn out just because it rattles too harsh, like a Benelli, lol. The sound is heard mostly about 4-5k RPM, it's definitely not a normal sound, because there are a few Suzuki V-STROM, which is the same motor, and none of them seem to sound so unpleasant.
So I put the rear cylinder to TDC (familiar with the procedure, I haven't screwed up anything))) and took of the tensioner, and it was ALL THE way out, save one or two clicks maybe, the front one, which is the long and brutal-looking, has the same story. So, I guess, the chains are worn, if the stock tensioners are all the way out? However, brother Twin2 has given me a good idea, maybe the chain guide is really the part which is worn. What else on earth can make a tensioner to extend if the chain is good?
I can also mention that pulling the engine apart completely is definitely not an option where I live, I guess I'm gonna have to sell the bike( The problem is that the noise gonna scare off any possible buyers. Whaddaya guys think about manual cam chain tensioners? Will it help? I work at the machinist's, so I can get them made for free.
And btw, here is the chain riveting tool I was talking about:
Also as you take the tensioners out they will extend to full length (that's the way they are designed)!
The trick is putting them in correctly as twin2 has stated - get that wrong and the tension will be set too high causing stretch and premature wear on the cam chain guides.
 

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IF, this was the case, damage will depend on how long the engine was running in that condition.
If it was not a long time, there might be a chance that you simply have to take them out and in properly.
But I do not know, plus you mention the sound.....
Maybe you where mistaken and the sound was unrelated ?
You can check how far the the tensioner really goes (how many clicks) when after installing correctly, and then take out the spring first and then the tensioner, so you can see the real tension applied.
 
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