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Discussion Starter #1
I know this has probably been beat to death already, but I not sure how to fix this issue. And it may just be the settings that need to be changed.

Anyway here is the issue that I'm having: When I take long leaning turns (for example: entrance and exit ramps to highways) and the road is bumpy the bike seems to get pretty out of control if the lean is pretty deep and the speed is high. The bumps make the bike start going up and down and then the handle bars start going back and forth. So I have to let off the throttle to get it to settle back down.
But it is quite unnerving when you are really moving and you gotta let off becuase you can't keep the bike leaned over because its bouncing all over.

So what should I look at first?
 

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well how much do you weigh? have you set your sag? how old is the oil in the forks? is it still running the stock damper
 

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Discussion Starter #3
well how much do you weigh?
have you set your sag?
how old is the oil in the forks?
is it still running the stock damper?

1. 160lbs
2. I haven't touched any of the settings since I bought it
3. I have no idea. I haven't had the bike for a year yet, so I know its been atleast that long.
4. Steering damper is stock so is all the rest of the suspension on the bike.
 

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I had the same problems with my stock suspension...

first...get rid of the rotary damper junk in the rear...I put on my ohlins rear and set my sag, and no more wobbles for me :thumbup
 

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Orange01TLR said:
So what should I look at first?
An SM610 followed by an SM510:devious

Seriously, you need to go set the sag. Its a criticle setting that should be done before you ever ride the bike (well ok, I did ride mine home when I bought it without the sag being set, but the po was within a few lbs of me so it wasn't way out - set it properly before the next ride though)! If I were you I'd go change the fork oil, set the clickers to their stock settings and set sag front and rear just to get started at a decent baseline.

good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok sounds like a place to start. Only problem is that when you say "set your sag" that sounds like "lasjdf;fljs;dflkjjsdf". I have no idea what that means or what to adjust to set it. And then how do you know when its right for different weight riders?
 

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Check this website:
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/springs.htm
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/suspension.htm

Google "basic motorcycle suspension" "free sag" "rider sag"

Proper tuning of your suspension will absolutely make-or-break the quality of your ride. The stock springs on a TLR are made for a 180-200 lb rider. If you don't weigh that much then you're going to need new springs. Since the rear spring can't be replaced with something off the shelf, you will need a new rear shock too.

If you have no idea what any of this means, it's probably best to talk face-to-face with someone who does.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok I just read through the links in the last post and through the service manual that I have for the bike. I was able to confirm that all of the front suspension settings are still at the stock setting. So I know how to decrease or increase the dampening on the three adjustments of the front suspension. But what I don't know, and wasn't able to learn from the links in the last post, was what exactly increasing or decreasing the dampening does?
For the rear shock, there are two adjustments that can be made, but the service manual suggests that you not change them. What about changing the setting of the spring itself. You can obviously turn the locks to lengthen or shorten the spring. What affect would that have on the ride.
 

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Turning the lock on the shock (and the two large nuts on top of the forks) is called adjusting the preload. Preload compresses the spring, making it feel stiffer when you bounce on the bike. You will need to adjust the preload when setting your sag.
 

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as has been said set the sag that needs to be done no matter what.

however your fix is most likely to decrease the rebound dampening. rebound dampening controls how fast the suspension extends.

whats happening with your bike (most likely) is your hitting a series of little bumps, each one compresses the suspension a little and you have 2 much rebound dampening which is not letting the suspension extend fast enough so it packs down, runs out of travel and vola your riding a pogo stick. ease off (wind out) the rebound dampening by a few clicks and your probs will be solved.

if its happening going down hill and/or decelerating then its prob the forks. if its happening going up hill and/or while accelerating its prob the rear shock. it also could be both the forks and the rear shock :D try one at a time though.
 

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I'm a heavy guy, I'm 235lbs so the TLR in way unsprung for me. Just rebuilt my forks, left the stock springs but put 7.5W oil in it to stiffen up the rebound and Damp. My forks are set with 2 & half ring showing on the preload and 3 clicks out for bottom on the Rebound and Damp. For my wieght this feels like the bikes on rails. I would also check the steering neck bearing to make sure theres no play in them. Loose steering neck bearings can effect the front suspension GREATLY!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Last night I loosened the two nuts that hold the rear spring to decompress the spring a little bit. I could definitely feel the difference while riding the bike to work this morning. When going over bumps, instead of feeling like I was on a seesaw where the bike would bounce front to back a few times. I felt less of a bounce in the rear and more in the front. So I will try to adjust the dampening out two clicks on each and see how that feels going home today.
Thanks for the help and I'll update when I get home from work.
(Unless I go for a ride during lunch today) :)
 

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You'd be wise to set your sag first off, use those two nuts in the back on the spring and the two blue bolts in the top of the fork caps to adjust spring preload and thus ride height. With you on the bike as though you were riding you should have 25-30mm of sag front and rear. Get that set, then play with damping adjustments to dial in how the suspension reacts to bumps.

have fun
 

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I had the same problem when I first got my bike. The guy I bought it from looked like he was easily 220 lbs (I'm 170) My excitement of purchasing the bike was dampened a bit (no pun intended) during the ride home. The suspension was set up for his (seller's) weight. Small bumps were jarring me right outta the seat and in corners it felt like there was a hinge in the middle of the bike (scary).

I backed off the rear spring tension and reset the Compression and rebound damping to manufacture specs -big improvement, but still running wide in the corners. Then I tried the 'Jamie' settings (see below) -On the street...works fantstic! Even in bumpy corners it holds the line nicely.

<TABLE bgColor=#cccccc border=1><CAPTION><TBODY>
</TBODY></CAPTION><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#000066>Suspension set-up for TL1000R</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#cccccc>Here's the road and race settings...great handling, neutral steering...... a fast easy to ride bike.
The TL-R is a very sensitive bike to suspension and ride height changes.
ROAD SETTINGS: This gives you good feel and composure over bumpy roads,
but I found it to be too soft If your roads are smooth and you want more feedback,
you'd be better off running the RACE settings.
Tire Pressures: Front 36 PSI Rear 36 PSI
FRONT Suspension Settings:
Spring Preload: 4 Lines showing (fourth line should just show above cap)
I have only 2 lines showing as my weight is over 200
Compression Damping: 10 clicks out from fully in
Rebound Damping: 5 clicks out from fully in
REAR Suspension Settings:
Spring Preload: 6 threads showing on top side of the thread below the lock ring
i.e. two full turns from standard.
Mark one of the castellations on the adjuster ring with a felt tip and add two full turns more preload.
I cranked it on up to 8 threads showing as my weight is over 200
Compression Damping: 18 clicks out from fully in
Rebound Damping: 15 clicks out from fully in


RACETRACK SETTINGS: Good control and feedback for Trackdays and
Club Racing using the standard suspension. I found this to be a better setting for me.
Tire Pressures: Front 32 PSI Rear 32 PSI
FRONT Suspension Settings:
Spring Preload: 4 Lines showing (fourth line should just show above cap)
I have only 2 lines showing as my weight is over 200
Compression Damping: 4 clicks out from fully in
Rebound Damping: 3 clicks out from fully in
REAR Suspension Settings:
Spring Preload: 6 threads showing on top side of the thread below the lock ring
i.e. two full turns from standard.
Mark one of the castellations on the adjuster ring with a felt tip and add two full turns more preload.
I cranked it on up to 8 threads showing as my weight is over 200 Compression Damping: 7 clicks out from fully in Rebound Damping: 10 clicks out from fully in


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks John,
Now that was exactly what I was looking for. A basis to start at and then fine turn from there. I'll give this a shot today and see how I like it.

Thanks again. I really appreciate it.

Patrick
 

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Just FYI you need to set sag for you, using someone's elses pre-load won't work unless you happen to be exactly the same weight (both you and the bike) and your springs happen to be of exactly the same rate (there's some production varriance, plus they get softer as they get older....)

good luck
 

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TomM said:
however your fix is most likely to decrease the rebound dampening. rebound dampening controls how fast the suspension extends.
Problem with this diagnosis Tom is that you have no idea how much rebound damping the forks currently have. If Orange01TLR tells you it is "out this many clicks from maximum" you still have no idea as you don't know what condition his particular forks are in. That's the problem with doing this kind of stuff on the net. He definitely needs to set rider's sag front & rear first & then work on the comp & rebound as you stated. That's the way to do it.

A better approach though is to direct the guy to find out where his baseline comp & rebound settings are first & to make sure they are set to the same spot on both forks. Then have the person get on his bike & hold the front brake lever & have him bounce up & down on the bike. Pay attention to how fast the front end rises up after compressed. Then have the person set rebound damping to one click out from maximum (all the way in clockwise, then back out one click or 1/2 turn depending on the fork) on both forks then get on the bike & bounce on it. Does the bike compress & rise up slowly or much slower than it did the first time? Or does it rise back up after being compressed in about the same manner as when the adjuster is set out 6 or more clicks (or 3 or more turns, for the TLS) out from maximum? If there is little difference in the damping then trying to fine tune this issue out via adjustments to rebound damping is futile. Now do the same with the comp damping circuit & feel how much difference there is between very close to maximum damping dialed in & with the adjuster backed out several turns or about 8 clicks from maximum. Bounce the bike but do not ride it when doing this evaluation. I have found that front forks that are getting worn & have old fork oil in them will lose front rebound damping first but the comp damping stays pretty good unless the forks are getting really worn or the oil is super old / decrepid. My quess is that your fork oil is pretty old by this point & there is not a whole lot of rebound there to begin with but that is just a guess. Without doing the fork analysis described above so you get a feel for what the individual fork is doing & how it is reacting you are really guessing at what is going on. There are way too many variables in the equation to do that. Eliminate some & get more info to eliminate others is the idea IMO.

The rebound adjuster is the one slotted adjuster found on top of the fork leg. Wipe down the outside of the adjusters with a rag with some WD40 sprayed on it before turning it. On the rebound adjuster be careful not to force the adjuster past the maximum setting is found. It will feel a little vague when you turn it in & get to this maximum setting but DO NOT force it any further. If you do you will damage it. The comp damping adjuster is found close to the bottom of the fork leg on the rear of the fork leg. Definitely wipe this one off as well before you do the aforementioned adjustment.

First read up on setting rider's sag & do it before you try adjusting in comp & rebound. However you can always just see how much comp & rebound you got independent of setting rider's sag just to get a rough idea...

Voodootwin: Once you have played around with enough front & rear suspensions on many different bikes you will quickly find out how useless that stuff you posted is. Nothing personal what-so-ever but that is why there are so many bikes out there with their suspensions set up so poorly. People believe, or want to believe this stuff is so easy that you have a "sweet settings" for a bike & that works for every single bike of that model. This is so blattently false & is a very common misconception that the internet just seems to propogate. Rider's sag is dependent on rider's weight so suggesting spring preload settings for everyone is ridiculous. As suspension components wear & the fork oil deteriorates the comp & rebound damping ability of a particular fork changes RADICALLY. As most racers find out your settings comp & rebound settings also change from track to track. It really depends on the track surface & the type of track you are running at. This means my Willow Springs big track settings comp & rebound wise do not work well at all at the Cali Speedway. I run WAY more rebound at the relatively smooth Cali Speedway to get the bike to hook up & that same setting has my ass flying out of the seat at Willow Springs. Sorry Voodoo, that information you posted is very misleading & highly inaccurate.

.
 

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dobilna, thats all good advice.

when youve been riding and racing for years you can get on a bike and think about how the suspension is acting. in your head you can isolate the feeling of the comp from the rebound and just know whats happening. the guy isnt at that level yet (he's still working out what screw does what and infact he doesnt even know what what is even when he finds it) and if he's bombarded with 2 much info then its overload and just 2 hard.

Mr. DOBALINA said:
Problem with this diagnosis Tom is that you have no idea how much rebound damping the forks currently have.
I don’t need to know how much dampening the forks have, that dosnt matter what matters is that they have 2 much rebound dampening.

the complaints he had with the bike to me sound like its bottoming out. the fact that its happening in long sweepers, lent over and after a series of bumps realy make it a classic case of 2 much rebound.

his complaints with the bike did not point to incorrect preload settings. however as you pointed out setting sag is the starting point to correct suspension adjustment

orange, you need to check everything, set your sag and record the settings you’ve you decide to start with. then ride the bike and tell us how it feels. you need to think about whats happening, what end of the bike its happening on and where in the corner its happening (entry, mid corner or exit). ... ie, bike jolts or pitches mid corner when you get on the throttle... or front springs back up and upsets the bike mid corner
If if you can do that then you've just become a suspension setting expert cos the rest is easy :D

Dobilna, $20 says if orange goes back to the settings he had and winds out the rebound by a click or 2 his problem will be solved.
 

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Mr. DOBALINA said:
...
Voodootwin: Once you have played around with enough front & rear suspensions on many different bikes you will quickly find out how useless that stuff you posted is. Nothing personal what-so-ever but that is why there are so many bikes out there with their suspensions set up so poorly. People believe, or want to believe this stuff is so easy that you have a "sweet settings" for a bike & that works for every single bike of that model. This is so blattently false & is a very common misconception that the internet just seems to propogate. Rider's sag is dependent on rider's weight so suggesting spring preload settings for everyone is ridiculous. As suspension components wear & the fork oil deteriorates the comp & rebound damping ability of a particular fork changes RADICALLY. As most racers find out your settings comp & rebound settings also change from track to track. It really depends on the track surface & the type of track you are running at. This means my Willow Springs big track settings comp & rebound wise do not work well at all at the Cali Speedway. I run WAY more rebound at the relatively smooth Cali Speedway to get the bike to hook up & that same setting has my ass flying out of the seat at Willow Springs. Sorry Voodoo, that information you posted is very misleading & highly inaccurate.

.
Mr. Dobalina, I was certain sooner or later we'd be hearing from you :) I read past posts of yours to know how passionate you are about suspension settings and the how-to's and all that and I respect that. However, first lets be clear that there is a difference between riding at or near the limits on a race track and riding on the street. Ideally, sure we'd all like to have our suspensions optimally tuned but people like me don't have ready access to trained technicians (no race tracks around where I live.) So, I have to rely on myself. Second, I have been riding for almost thirty years and I know first hand about bad handling bikes (because I've owned a few). Thirdly, The corrections I made to my bike as I posted earlier vastly improved the handling to my surprise and delight. I'm no expert and I'm no racer but I did read up on the articles and tried to take a methodical approach. I do like to ride somewhat aggressive and I know when my bike is handling well.

Now, what Patrick described was very similar to my problem which is, the way his bike is behaving is intolerable and anything for the interim would be better than the way it is now. I was fortunate in that the settings I found work so well I have no intention of changing it. I felt that Patrick needed more than just vague theories he wanted something concrete if not to completely fix the problem, then at least improve the situation. Patrick is close to my weight he has the same bike, it's worth a shot for him to try. It's certainly better than getting in there with a screwdriver and guessing.
 

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Actually the technique I described is HOW you learn to do it! Just blindly setting up a bike by someone's suggested spring preload settings & then his supposedly "good" comp & rebound settings really get you nowhere. It is really not just a race track thing folks. I watched Race Tech Randy out at a bike night about a month ago set up about 30 street bikes' suspensions. For the most part it is very similar doing this diagnosis stuff for a street bike & a race bike. It may take an hour or two playing around with this stuff to learn some things but just a quick diagnosis that the guy has too much rebound when you don't have all the facts in front of you is not an effective approach. If you think I am alienating the poor guy by asking him to use his head & learn something I think you are answering questions he should be answering himself! I have shown the technique to several members here & I have not been told it was over their heads or it was too difficult.

I recently had my 01' GSXR 1000 back out on a race track & the bike has a Lindemann Engineering re-valved front forks & a LE revalved rear shock. I went with my baseline settings & rider's sag set at 32mm up front & 30mm in the rear. Was riding out at the Cali Speedway & the bike handled quite a bit better than my TLS does, just steers better & changes direction mid turn easier. It was starting to drift wide at the exits of turns when I started getting up to speed though. A little annoying but I learned years ago that is "usually" caused by too much compression damping. I had access to one of the Race Tech track support techs (Alex) & asked him to take a look at my front end & described to him what the bike was doing out there. He bounced up & down on the forks & thought the comp & rebound felt like they were set up pretty good for that particular track & asked me what rider's sag I was running. Told him it was around 32mm up front but I had lost about 8 pounds since I last set it up. He told me to back off spring preload by 2 turns & try it again. Did it & went back out & rode another session. Bingo. Bike was on rails & finished off turns well.

If you are a newbie you can learn these techniques on setting rider's sag & then work on learning where to set up comp & rebound damping as a baseline. Just learning to set some suspension component to "this many clicks" is really not helpful what-so-ever as it is very misleading & outright wrong. Call up Jim Lindemann, Race Tech, the Thermosman, Max McAlister or whoever your local suspension service shop is & they will confirm this. Once a suspension is getting worn & the fork oil is deteriorating the damping deteriorates to the point were it is NON EXISTANT. Damping doesn't increase; that's why on a 5 year old bike I am pretty sure the rebound is not there. I have worked on some TLS's that gave you close to zero rebound damping no matter where you set the rebound adjuster at. That's how fried the fork oil was so there were NO sweet settings for that bike. And that goes for all bikes, every single one of them - once the fork oil deteriorates & the fork internals wear those sweet spots MOVE. It is no longer at 5 clicks out from maximum it is now maybe at 3 clicks out from maximum. Six months from then it will be at 1 click out from maximum when that oil gets in even worse shape. That's why people that know this stuff & have set up more than a few bikes in their lives know that this "sweet numbers" that will work for all bikes of one model information is USELESS. If you disagree, whatever. Call up people who do this for a living & ask them & then post up what they say.

You really can't say what to do with an adjuster on a bike until you get on the bike & see what is going on. That's why you need to sit on a bike & move adjusters around & bounce the damn bike up & down to see what it is doing. This is not rocket science folks! Bounce up & down on the bike & guage how much resistance the forks are giving you on the way down & on the way back up. Spin the adjuster further in & try to see if it feels any different. If it does this is a good sign & it means you can set up comp & rebound to a decent point. But if you don't want to do this & learn this not-so-difficult process you will never be able to set the bike up at all. Not by Joe V or Joe B or Sportrider magazine or whoever's sweet numbers. It is a truly worthless endeavor doing so. It would be much wiser to take it to a shop & pay someone to do it for you.
 
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