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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, I’ve searched as best I can and hope I’m not going over something that’s been covered before. So I bought a 98 tl1000r as a non runner, got it running after an hour of sorting wiring issues though... sweet! I’ve done the fuel mod and it had the air box mod already. The issues I have are... the fuel pump relay has a bridge wire between 2 wires for some reason, if I cut it I get a fault code and the pump doesn’t run so not sure what that’s about? The bike runs fine, static revs fine if you’re slow but if I wind it quick it won’t rev and misfires until I reduce the throttle and it revs again. Riding it won’t rev past half throttle in any gear. The TPS is showing on the top bar at any rpm even down less than 1k. Is it possible to have a faulty TPS without a fault code? And would that affect the revs? Sorry for the essay 🤪
 

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Not getting enough fuel or air flow. Once you go past half throttle the bike begins starving (sputtering). Not reving past a certain RPM is typically indicative of a fouled plug, which is itself a symptom of a problem and not the cause.

Given that you've admitted to having electrical issues with the pump wires, an in-line fuel filter, and modified air box, I would say you've narrowed down the trouble areas. Me personally, I'd focus on that bridge at the pump wires. I'm sure Tony can guide you on that one.


NOTE: TPS being slightly off won't cause your issue. My bar was at the top for months before I adjusted it and I never had any problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ah ok, I wasn’t sure if the TPS would cause bad running. Maybe it could be a voltage issue for the fuel pump then? The pump looked in good condition when I took it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ok so I’ve done some more fiddling. I adjusted the TPS but I couldn’t get the rpm low enough on the idle stop, if I turn the TPS so the rpm is 1200 the bar is at the top, if I turn the TPS to the centre bar then the revs rise to 2k and I can’t get the idle lower. Static revs clean now but flames out the cans but still doesn’t respond past half throttle on a ride.
 

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... still doesn’t respond past half throttle on a ride.
Like I said, if cracking the throttle is causing the bike to stutter and choke half way, then it's starving for fuel or air. Or it's getting too much. Honestly it could be one of a dozen different things. pull your plugs. They'll tell you what's going on.

Plus, you said you purchased the bike as a non-starter, so no telling what condition everything is in, or what has been done to it. Throttle bodies and or injectors could be gummed up from sitting, and previous owner may have screwed with factory settings.

And post some images... We're not psychics.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah I’ve ordered new plugs so I’ll check them next. Also ordered a new fuel pump just in case. Here’s a helpful tip... don’t rev the bike with the air filter off, damn near deafened myself! 🤣
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I appreciate the input. I will get some pictures up soon. The previous owner definitely had a go at it and there’s loads of bits that was left loose, loads of wires have been cut and crimped. There’s 2 wires cut and not attached to anything under a black box that’s next to the fuse box on the right side of the bars.
 

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I would have held off on buying a pump and pump seal (or anything for that matter) as it may not be your problem. Especially if you've got unused wires dangling about. Shotgun diagnostics can get expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I figured a new pump wouldn’t hurt anyway, when I fitted the new external filter it didn’t seem to fill that fast with the pump running. The stock feed line was actually kinked which I found while fitting the new line. The wires missing shouldn’t be the running issue as the parts that make it run obviously work for it to run. Like you say it’s gotta be too much or too little fuel.
 

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....these wires have been cut and put into this box instead. What’s that about?
That is an aftermarket turn signal flasher (relay). The DarkGreen and LightBlue wires give it away. Normally, the TS relay is incorporated into the SideStand Relay (SSR), which is the module just above the cut wires. It may be that the TS portion failed, or the new relay may be LED compatible, if LED turn signals have been installed. :O

At any rate, LED compatible SSR/TS Relays in the OEM module configuration are readily available on ebay, if you want to restore the wiring to its former state.
 

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Ok so I’ve done some more fiddling. I adjusted the TPS but I couldn’t get the rpm low enough on the idle stop, if I turn the TPS so the rpm is 1200 the bar is at the top, if I turn the TPS to the centre bar then the revs rise to 2k and I can’t get the idle lower. Static revs clean now but flames out the cans but still doesn’t respond past half throttle on a ride.
Proper idle and smooth low rpm running are greatly affected by TB and TPS adjustments, in my experience.

Just so you know, the TPS and Throttle Body Synchronization (TB vacuum balance) are interactive. There are plenty of threads here that discuss this topic in depth. You may need to go back and forth between the two to get the idle where it should be, ~1200 rpm, but in the end, the TBs are balanced and then the TPS is last thing to adjust. If the fuel and ignition system are working, you should be able to attain the 1200 rpm target with the bar in the middle, then it should move to the top position at 1400 rpm.

There is a youtube video that explains the TB Balance & TPS adjustment process well on a TLS (same method as a TLR, minus the air screws). Someone will round up a link if you can't find it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
....these wires have been cut and put into this box instead. What’s that about?
That is an aftermarket turn signal flasher (relay). The DarkGreen and LightBlue wires give it away. Normally, the TS relay is incorporated into the SideStand Relay (SSR), which is the module just above the cut wires. It may be that the TS portion failed, or the new relay may be LED compatible, if LED turn signals have been installed. <img src="http://www.tlzone.net/forums/images/smilies/dunno.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Surprised" class="inlineimg" />

At any rate, LED compatible SSR/TS Relays in the OEM module configuration are readily available on ebay, if you want to restore the wiring to its former state.
I just googled the part no on the original unit and figured it was flasher too.
I just found both spark plugs were different from each other so that won’t help the running 😄
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Ok so I’ve done some more fiddling. I adjusted the TPS but I couldn’t get the rpm low enough on the idle stop, if I turn the TPS so the rpm is 1200 the bar is at the top, if I turn the TPS to the centre bar then the revs rise to 2k and I can’t get the idle lower. Static revs clean now but flames out the cans but still doesn’t respond past half throttle on a ride.
Proper idle and smooth low rpm running are greatly affected by TB and TPS adjustments, in my experience.

Just so you know, the TPS and Throttle Body Synchronization (TB vacuum balance) are interactive. There are plenty of threads here that discuss this topic in depth. You may need to go back and forth between the two to get the idle where it should be, ~1200 rpm, but in the end, the TBs are balanced and then the TPS is last thing to adjust. If the fuel and ignition system are working, you should be able to attain the 1200 rpm target with the bar in the middle, then it should move to the top position at 1400 rpm.

There is a youtube video that explains the TB Balance & TPS adjustment process well on a TLS (same method as a TLR, minus the air screws). Someone will round up a link if you can't find it.
Thanks man, I will definitely get this done. I want it running as sweet as possible 👌🏻 I’ve got a power commander with the bike but not fitted too which I might chuck on.
 

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Ok so last bit of wiring weirdness to figure out is why this was done? This is the fuel pump relay yeah?
Yes, that is the fuel pump relay (aftermarket apparently). That jumper wire is there most likely because the control signal from the ECM (yellow/blue wire) is no longer functional. TLR ECMs don't fail too often, but that is the most common failure when they do fail. The jumper connects the switched 12V wire (orange/white), primarily used for the ignition system, to the yellow/red wire that provides power to the FP and injectors. It works, but it is not an ideal arrangement. With the jumper installed, the FP is on whenever the key is on.

Normally, in the OEM configuration, the Orange/Blue wire is powered all the time (even when key is off). This is the dedicated fuel system power line (with a separate fuse). Then when the key is turned on, the ECM would drive the Yellow/Blue wire low to energize the FP relay. The relay would then make the connection between the Orange/Blue and Yellow/Red wires, powering up the FP and injectors.

Of course, there may be some other wiring problem that resulted in the band-aid jumper, but you won't know until you test it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yes, that is the fuel pump relay (aftermarket apparently). That jumper wire is there most likely because the control signal from the ECM (yellow/blue wire) is no longer functional. TLR ECMs don't fail too often, but that is the most common failure when they do fail. The jumper connects the switched 12V wire (orange/white), primarily used for the ignition system, to the yellow/red wire that provides power to the FP and injectors. It works, but it is not an ideal arrangement. With the jumper installed, the FP is on whenever the key is on.

Normally, in the OEM configuration, the Orange/Blue wire is powered all the time (even when key is off). This is the dedicated fuel system power line (with a separate fuse). Then when the key is turned on, the ECM would drive the Yellow/Blue wire low to energize the FP relay. The relay would then make the connection between the Orange/Blue and Yellow/Red wires, powering up the FP and injectors.

Of course, there may be some other wiring problem that resulted in the band-aid jumper, but you won't know until you test it.[/QUOTE]

That was my thought, when I cut that wire it came up with c41 and no fuel pump noise. I guess I’m best off cutting the wire that goes to the ecm then? So it doesn’t back feed?
 

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... Proper idle and smooth low rpm running are greatly affected by TB and TPS adjustments, in my experience. ...
Correction on my previous comment. I was partially crossing the TOS with the TPS as the TOS was fresh on my mind from a current project. Sorry about that. Six5 is correct regarding its affects on high/low RPMs. I didn't correct myself earlier because it wouldn't cause your stuttering at half throttle, and so focusing on it won't solve your primary issue. Not sure if syncing the throttle bodies will either (unless theyre seriously out of whack), but certainly worth trying. I still think the issue lies in a restriction, possibly caused by the bad pump wiring.

Also note that the R has two additional injectors, which kick in at higher RPMs.




NOTE: Years ago I did the TPS and TB sync and so no changes in RPMs or throttle response, so that's the experience I'm going off. In short, my experience there is limited.
 

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...

That was my thought, when I cut that wire it came up with c41 and no fuel pump noise. I guess I’m best off cutting the wire that goes to the ecm then? So it doesn’t back feed?
If the FP relay is connected properly, there is no danger of "back feed" into the ECM.

While I have not opened an ECM to determine the root cause failure. My guess, based on similar circuits, is that the output drive transistor for the fuel control line has failed in the ECM. if so, having an external voltage connected to the Yell/Blu wire (somehow) will not damage the circuit any further.

Still, you may want to confirm that the Yell/Blu wire has continuity back to the ECM. If it is open, that could be the problem.

There is another potential problem that would cause the OEM circuit to fail. To test it, verify that the Org/Blu wire has 12V all the time - even with a load on it. If not, it may have a poor connection at the large white gang connector, or an open fuel fuse. It can be loaded by connecting jumper from the Org/Blu wire to the Yell/Red wire (disconnect the existing jumper before doing this test). This will cause the fuel pump to run, and the voltage on the Org/Blu wire should remain high (at least 11V) while the pump is running.
 
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