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Discussion Starter #1
any advice or pointing in the right direction would be good - here's the problem.

It's a 1999 TL1000R Streetfighter. Bike was running fine last year then wouldn't start when I took it out after winter.

Engine turning over fine, plenty of fuel in the tank and seem to have a spark at plug but didn't even offer to fire up.

Then I noticed the FI code, checked the manual and interrogated to get C22 so eventually found the Atmospheric Pressure Sensor - it looks ok.

Removed the sensor and checked the input voltage to the sensor (i.e. red wire to earth) and I'm reading 5.76V. Haynes manual says it should be 2.4-3.8V but I think I believe the service manual which says 4.5-5.5V. :confused

So, can anyone help? Is my ECU faulty?
 

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The ECM is very likely OK.

c22
Atmospheric pressure sensor
The sensor voltage should be the following. (0.5 V < or = sensor voltage < 4.85 V) Without this range c22 is indicated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atmospheric pressure sensor, wiring/coupler connection



The AP sensor can be swapped with the IAP (Intake Air Pressure) sensor on the back of the air box. But first measure the supply voltage for the IAP sensor to see if it is the same. 5.76V is high, but not terribly so.

If the error stays c22, then probably the wiring has an issue (not uncommon for fighter conversions).

If the error becomes c14 when swapped, then the sensor itself is bad.

The bike can run without the AP sensor and you may not even notice it, but it will not do well at all without the IAP sensor.


Concerning the starting issue, the plugs can easily fuel foul after a lot of cranking over and not starting. Try a new set of plugs and make sure the battery is good and fully charged.

PS.
The 2.4 - 3.8 volts reading is probably in reference to the sensor's output. That is the voltage produced by typical atmospheric pressure with that sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks for the response six5

I should also have said that I had already guessed the bike should run without the AP so I did remove it and try starting it - still no response, didn't even cough.:banghead

and still had the came C22 error code so I don't think that swopping the AIP and AP will make any difference.

I reckoned that this was pointing me back from the AP towards the ECU so it had to be the wiring or the ECU itself. If the wiring was dodgy then I would expect a short to earth or an open circuit, not high(ish) volts.

thanks for the reminder to clear the flooding before I try starting it again. I was running it from jump leads off the car to make sure it was spinning fast enough.
 

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i have had similar problems with fi flashing, not firing. had tip-over cutoff sw under tank base out of place once, and had a bad clutch switch another time due to aftermarket levers.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ok thanks 12

I have had little time to work on TL recently so I'll try working thru the possible causes
 

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I would do what six5 says and swap the sensors. At least then you will know the sensor is good since it will be tested by the IAP part of the ecu. If you don't get the C14 then the sensor is good.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
ok - making some progress as I found that the reason it wouldn't start was due to the connector from the petrol tank so now it starts and runs good

but still have the C22 code so swopped over the sensors as six5 suggested and still get the same code so it looks like the sensor is ok

so I guess now that I just have to work through the wiring and look for a bad connection
 

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....

If the error stays c22, then probably the wiring has an issue (not uncommon for fighter conversions).

If the error becomes c14 when swapped, then the sensor itself is bad.
.....


.......
:doh
I just realized that I previously posted the wrong error code for the IAP sensor, it should have been c13. Not c14. :banghead

Sorry about any confusion that may have caused. :blush
 

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Discussion Starter #9
no worries - I realised that

so from the manuals it looks like the brown/black wire should be clear of earth but mine is shorted (reading 5 ohms on cheap multimeter) so I think that's my problem and I'm trying to trace it back through the loom but haven't found anything yet
 

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no worries - I realised that

so from the manuals it looks like the brown/black wire should be clear of earth but mine is shorted (......haven't found anything yet
That will depend on how you are testing it. If you'll notice the AP circuit test on page 4-43 in the TLR manual, the voltage test (both diagrams labeled as #1), shows the same voltage result from the RED wire whether black probe is on the Black/Brn wire or on actual chassis ground. That's because they are common to each other, but they are only tied together INSIDE the ECM. So then, if you were to disconnect the ECM from the loom, and again measure the resistance from the Blk/Brn wire to chassis ground, you will find that the connection is no longer there. If the connection remains, you can continue to examine the loom. :)

However, even if the Blk/Brn wire remained "shorted" to the chassis, I doubt that condition would actually generate an error code.

Have you yet verified that the output signal from the AP sensor (Violet wire) is getting to the ECM?
Since there are 5 volts and ground at the sensor, and the sensor is good, the next crucial bit of info is to know whether the ECM is getting valid info from the sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks for your help with this six5

you were absolutely right about the common connection being inside the ECM - once I disconnected the ECM the short disappeared

I measure 6v (5.76v previously) between red and earth or 5.3v from violet to earth - all readings with sensor removed

With the sensor in place, I bared some wire on the output side of the sensor and only measure 0.38v between Violet and Brown/Black or battery terminal instead of the 3.6v the manual states. I swopped the sensor again with the IAP one but the reading is the same. I checked for continuity through the connector block and it seems ok so not sure what next......
 

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th.....
With the sensor in place, ....only measure 0.38v between Violet and Brown/Black or battery terminal instead of the 3.6v the manual states. .... what next......
Odd results. :confused

At this point, I'd would measure the voltage on the Violet wire as it passes through the Black Gang Connector from the Front Loom to the Main Loom. Measure it on BOTH sides of the connector. Is it different than the 0.38 volts measured at the sensor? Is it different from one side of the connector to the other? If it is unchanged from your first measurement (0.38V), use a straight pin to probe into the Violet wire at the backside of the ECM connector. What is the voltage at that point?


If the voltage on the Violet wire is still low, perform the vacuum test described on page 4-44 to see if the sensor output can swing the full range.

Then verify that the Violet wire is not shorted to anything else. It needs to make a direct connection from the AP sensor to the ECM.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
thanks again six5

I only had a little time this evening so I checked that the violet wire is clear of ground - it is once I disconnect the ECM again

and I checked the violet wire for continuity from the section I bared outside the sensor connector back to just outside the ECM and that is ok too

I'll see how far I get when I next have enough time to work through this
 

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....
so I checked that the violet wire is clear of ground - it is once I disconnect the ECM again

.....
Could you elaborate on this comment ravechimp?

Was the violet wire not "clear of ground?" There should have been no need to disconnect it from the ECM. :confused


For the sake of comparison, I used an ohm meter to measure the sensor output wires (inputs to the ECM) for both the AP sensor (violet wire) and the IAP sensor (brown wire). These were measured relative to their respective ground wires (black/brown).

Measured at the sensor connector with the sensor removed.
ECM connected to the loom.
Key off.

Both sensor inputs to the ECM measured 150K ohms.


When you have time, it will be interesting to see how yours compares. :eatcorn
 
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