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Pygmy looking for a new name
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14,150 Posts
Not to burst your bubble....but....
http://www.tlzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79219
http://www.tlzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79666
http://www.tlzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79326
http://www.tlzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=78298
http://www.tlzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79177

I am kind of excited about it. I don't see a new competitive V-Twin Suzukin in the future, but what with Honda being non-competitive in the AMA for the most part I could see them helping push for rule changes and a new RC in the works.
 

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Super Mod,
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3,568 Posts
I'd rather wait for this... :devious



This engine will be used in WSB which means Aprilia will be producing homologation machines for the street. :devious :devious :devious :devious :devious
 

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1,161 Posts
For the few who don't know, WSB regulations are expected to permit 1200cc twins to compete with the 1000cc inline fours in 2008 (ala the 1990's with 750cc fours and 1000cc twins).

Obviously, Duc has introduced the 1098 and 1098s for 2007. They have already officially announced in the Ducati blog that they will introduce the 1188R for racing/competition in 2008...that's just gonna be sick.

That new Aprilia V4 should kick booty too! Not sure how that will fit in the regulations yet.

Some of the press in still suggesting that other manufacturers will jump in soon......some say still this month secret news is coming!!!!!! Same as always....

Always rumors. Always rumors.....
 

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8,899 Posts
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2006/01/23/buell-xbrr/

Buell XBRR features:

* 1339cc (81.7 cid) Thunderstorm Powertrain:
o 4.080 inch (103.6 mm) bore and 3.125 inch (79.4mm) stroke
o 12.5:1 compression ratio
o Dual 62 mm down-draft fuel-injection throttle bodies
o WAVE-analyzed header and mass-centralized muffler
o 150+ peak engine horsepower at 8000 rpm (per SAE J607)
o 100 ft. lbs. peak engine torque at 6500 rpm (per SAE J607)
* Black 6-Spoke Cast Magnesium Racing wheels:
o Front: 3.5 inch (88.9mm) x 17 inch (431.8mm) wheel with 120/70R-17 tire
o Rear: 5.5 inch (139.7mm) x 17 inch (431.8mm) wheel with 190/55R-17 tire
* Buell ZTL2reversed rotor front brake with eight-piston Nissin caliper
* Ram Air system integrated with full racing fairing
* Carbon fiber bodywork
* 43mm Ohlins adjustable front suspension with inverted forks
* Ohlins fully-adjustable rear suspension with coil-over monoshock with remote reservoir
* 55-degree lean angle (hard contact)
* 30.5-inch (775 mm) seat height
* 21-degree rake and 3.4-inch (86 mm) trail
* Cast-aluminum swingarm with billet axle adjustment system
o Center position wheelbase 52.8 inches (1341 mm)
o Range wheelbase 51.8 - 53.8 inches (1315 mm - 1367 mm)
* Buell Racing paint scheme
 

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Pygmy looking for a new name
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14,150 Posts
Ok, maybe someone can answer this for me. Why don't manufacturers push the limit? Why if the regulations will allow for a 1200cc V-Twin would you do an 1188 instead of a 1199?

I never understood why when Suzuki and Yamaha were selling 999cc bikes like they were hotcakes, why did Honda tiptoe to the 999cc line with the 929 and then the 954 only to finally go 999.
 

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1,161 Posts
Burn: Some good points in your Ducati rant. I personally would never have gotten interested in Twins had it not been for the looks, sound and performance (sex) of Ducati.

As for manufacturers pushing the displacement limit....endless number of reasons: Management/budget/development...sometimes it just doesn't pay to strive for the extra 11cc (1188 to 1199)....and why an 1199 and not a 1200? Is that extra cc worth the cost/return?

It's always tough to tell with Honda. Sometimes they just whip out their junk like they're Ron Jeremy...NR750, RC30, RC45, Rune, etc.....sometimes they act like the corporate giant they are and take the safe and slow developmental route.

Also remember that Ducati snuck up on their displacement with the 851, 888, 916, 998....

I think it's as important as it always has been for each manufacturer to have a F*ck All bike in their portfolio, and I hope the corporations remember that with their latest crop of killers.....
 

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Pygmy looking for a new name
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14,150 Posts
I always thought you went a cc down to account for tolerances and error in for when you have a thourough tech inspection to ensure you are under the limit, and not over it. But I could be wrong.
 

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so does that mean suzuki is fixxing a new duc eater soon? cuz the fuz about the 916 was the same back in the day then came the TILLER AND BOOM.. so id rather wait for a new TILLER..this is gonna be my new bed time prayer
 

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Well, as for your bedtime prayer....remember what a jaw-dropping surprise the TLS was when it was introduced? Very few people expected it, and there's always room for hope.
 

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414 Posts
always thought being 1cc less was for insurance reasons?
 

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603 Posts
I think that will really shock the Jap bike makers. That kind of handling/power/quality for that price.

I love the quote on the cover of the latest issue of motor cyclist...

"160 hp, 3xx pounds, $14,995....still want that japanese superbike?"
 

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Pygmy looking for a new name
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14,150 Posts
always thought being 1cc less was for insurance reasons?
I don't know but it sure does help. Never tell em you have a Gixxer 600. It's a Suzuki GSX-R sportbike of 599cc displacement. :devious

A Duc beater by Suzuki? Isn't that the GSX-R1000? :O I wouldn't expect much from Suzuki. They have a bike that is tops. They've found out the costs of trying to compete with two different platforms. They found out what it's like to sell a bike that was received as lukewarm by the masses. (who cares about the crazy zealot minorities out there)

Honestly at this point I don't see it making any sense for Suzuki to pursue it. They had honest to goodness competition against the GSX-R750 that was a huge pig at the time and looking at another platform that was having some success made a lot of sense. Right now their competition isn't up to par, especially in the AMA and they have a pretty dominating platform that just keeps getting better every year.

It does make sense for someone like Honda who had great success with their Twins in racing to go this route, especially considering the rather lackluster results they are having with the CBR1000RR despite having some veteran top notch riders in the mix. It wouldn't suprise me one bit to see Honda step up with a Duc Beater V-Twin in the next year or so.

The only way I could see Suzuki jumping into this is by doing something with the SV. The 650 sells like gangbusters, but haven't had the success with the 1K. They've been refining it and refining it and are now close to having the power of the TL, which is something I don't understand why it took so long to do. However with a bunch of 1200cc V-Twins romping the streets from other manufacturers I could see Suzuki revamping the SV into a formidable street weapon. I just don't see it getting the racing backing or R&D that other manufacturers will put into it.

Although, there is always the squid buying factor to consider. "Yea man, I'm buying my first bike and I want the biggest, baddest, fastest sportbike you sell. I want that TL-1200R man." When it comes to sales there's two rules to consider. Win on sunday sell on monday, and There's no replacement for displacement.
 

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One thing that seems obvious to me is that Duc is raising the bar for twins on this one, and no other manufacturer can revamp a current bike (like the SV or the extinct RC51) to compete. Any competition will have to be a completely new platform.
 

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Ok, maybe someone can answer this for me. Why don't manufacturers push the limit? Why if the regulations will allow for a 1200cc V-Twin would you do an 1188 instead of a 1199?

I never understood why when Suzuki and Yamaha were selling 999cc bikes like they were hotcakes, why did Honda tiptoe to the 999cc line with the 929 and then the 954 only to finally go 999.
...alot of this has to do with the Japanese road/weight tax system that you pay every year and every other year (respectively)...the larger the engine, the more the tax payment and the older the vehicle the more the payment gets from year to year...its all about the $$ (or the Yen in this case)...
 

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One thing that seems obvious to me is that Duc is raising the bar for twins on this one, and no other manufacturer can revamp a current bike (like the SV or the extinct RC51) to compete. Any competition will have to be a completely new platform.
You are spot on with your thinking.:hail You can polish a turd all day long and all you end up with is a shiny piece of shit!:banghead
 

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Super Mod,
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3,568 Posts
That new Aprilia V4 should kick booty too! Not sure how that will fit in the regulations yet.
IIRC it's based on actual number of cylinders not configuration. So a V4 would adhere to the same rules as the I4.
 

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http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2006/01/23/buell-xbrr/
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Buell XBRR features:

* 1339cc (81.7 cid) Thunderstorm Powertrain:
o 4.080 inch (103.6 mm) bore and 3.125 inch (79.4mm) stroke
o 12.5:1 compression ratio
o Dual 62 mm down-draft fuel-injection throttle bodies
o WAVE-analyzed header and mass-centralized muffler
o 150+ peak engine horsepower at 8000 rpm (per SAE J607)
o 100 ft. lbs. peak engine torque at 6500 rpm (per SAE J607)
* Black 6-Spoke Cast Magnesium Racing wheels:
o Front: 3.5 inch (88.9mm) x 17 inch (431.8mm) wheel with 120/70R-17 tire
o Rear: 5.5 inch (139.7mm) x 17 inch (431.8mm) wheel with 190/55R-17 tire
* Buell ZTL2reversed rotor front brake with eight-piston Nissin caliper
* Ram Air system integrated with full racing fairing
* Carbon fiber bodywork
* 43mm Ohlins adjustable front suspension with inverted forks
* Ohlins fully-adjustable rear suspension with coil-over monoshock with remote reservoir
* 55-degree lean angle (hard contact)
* 30.5-inch (775 mm) seat height
* 21-degree rake and 3.4-inch (86 mm) trail
* Cast-aluminum swingarm with billet axle adjustment system
o Center position wheelbase 52.8 inches (1341 mm)
o Range wheelbase 51.8 - 53.8 inches (1315 mm - 1367 mm)
* Buell Racing paint scheme</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

yea but it's still got a :puke harley motor in it :lol :bitchslap
 

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269 Posts
Try the TL1200S, because there is no R in biggeSSSt or baddeSSSt.

:slaptlr


I don't know but it sure does help. Never tell em you have a Gixxer 600. It's a Suzuki GSX-R sportbike of 599cc displacement. :devious

A Duc beater by Suzuki? Isn't that the GSX-R1000? :O I wouldn't expect much from Suzuki. They have a bike that is tops. They've found out the costs of trying to compete with two different platforms. They found out what it's like to sell a bike that was received as lukewarm by the masses. (who cares about the crazy zealot minorities out there)

Honestly at this point I don't see it making any sense for Suzuki to pursue it. They had honest to goodness competition against the GSX-R750 that was a huge pig at the time and looking at another platform that was having some success made a lot of sense. Right now their competition isn't up to par, especially in the AMA and they have a pretty dominating platform that just keeps getting better every year.

It does make sense for someone like Honda who had great success with their Twins in racing to go this route, especially considering the rather lackluster results they are having with the CBR1000RR despite having some veteran top notch riders in the mix. It wouldn't suprise me one bit to see Honda step up with a Duc Beater V-Twin in the next year or so.

The only way I could see Suzuki jumping into this is by doing something with the SV. The 650 sells like gangbusters, but haven't had the success with the 1K. They've been refining it and refining it and are now close to having the power of the TL, which is something I don't understand why it took so long to do. However with a bunch of 1200cc V-Twins romping the streets from other manufacturers I could see Suzuki revamping the SV into a formidable street weapon. I just don't see it getting the racing backing or R&D that other manufacturers will put into it.

Although, there is always the squid buying factor to consider. "Yea man, I'm buying my first bike and I want the biggest, baddest, fastest sportbike you sell. I want that TL-1200R man." When it comes to sales there's two rules to consider. Win on sunday sell on monday, and There's no replacement for displacement.
 
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