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Discussion Starter #1
The TL and my current bike could hardly be more different from one another, but I can remember back in the days of my TLS that it was a popular thing to set up GSXR speedometers. I thought it worth putting my woes to you guys and see if anyone has encountered this issues...and defeated them.

To start, I'm running an '05 GSXR 600 speedometer.

First issue, and most annoying, is an erratic tach. At low RPM and slow revving it reads smooth and sweeps nicely. At high rpm (above 6k-ish) it jumps and jerks. My bike has a tach feed for the stock clock...from this it still jerks a bit and reads twice the actual RPM. I've also tried the positive terminal of the #1 coil and the same wire but at the igniter which yielded the same results each and is my current condition. Last I tried wrapping wire around the high tension lead and go not signal at all.

I'm certain this is a matter of a "dirty" signal, but I haven't faintest how to clean it up.

Second, and easiest to sort out of the lot I'm sure (I haven't looked it up at all yet)...damn fuel light is lit all the time. Anyone know off the top of their head know at what ohm the low fuel light triggers? If nothing else I'll just ground it and watch my miles.

Third, last, least consequential, and probably the most difficult to sort out...I'm trying to disable the "CHECK" warning on the dash and possibly use it to signify a different fault. Anyone had any luck disabling the check message on the GSXR clocks? Or is the TL lucky enough to be able to communicate with it normally?

Any help would be appreciated!
 

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To start, I'm running an '05 GSXR 600 speedometer.

First issue, and most annoying, is an erratic tach. At low RPM and slow revving it reads smooth and sweeps nicely. At high rpm (above 6k-ish) it jumps and jerks. My bike has a tach feed for the stock clock...from this it still jerks a bit and reads twice the actual RPM. I've also tried the positive terminal of the #1 coil and the same wire but at the igniter which yielded the same results each and is my current condition. Last I tried wrapping wire around the high tension lead and go not signal at all.

I'm certain this is a matter of a "dirty" signal, but I haven't faintest how to clean it up.
The GSXR gauge clusters expect a pretty clean square wave as the input for the speed signal as well as for the tacho signal. However, the tacho signal circuit was change somehow starting with 1000/K3 resp. 600/K5. I found that while earlier GSXR clocks worked fine on the TL, the latter ones needed an additional ~10Kohm resistor from the tacho signal to GND. Maybe this is worth a try.

Second, and easiest to sort out of the lot I'm sure (I haven't looked it up at all yet)...damn fuel light is lit all the time. Anyone know off the top of their head know at what ohm the low fuel light triggers? If nothing else I'll just ground it and watch my miles.
The GSXR and TL fuel circuit is pretty special. While most modern bikes have a float type fuel sensor, the GSXR and TL have 1 or 2 fixed sensors (thermostat). I guess it would require some sort of converter to get the GSXR fuel light working correctly. But what exactly is required depends on your current bike of course. I did something similar to make the 1000/K5 gauge cluster work on the TL fuel sensors.

Third, last, least consequential, and probably the most difficult to sort out...I'm trying to disable the "CHECK" warning on the dash and possibly use it to signify a different fault. Anyone had any luck disabling the check message on the GSXR clocks?
Yes, has been done many times. The only way to get rid of the CHEC message is to use an Arduino (or Teensy or...) to simulate the data protocol that the gauge cluster expects to get from the ECM. One just needs to send 8 bytes with certain content every ~400 ms. That will satisfy the gauge cluster. However, then the display will show '----' because it wants to show some temperature data. Of course it would be possible to either show some arbitrary numbers, or may be convert some real temp data into proper hex values and show that on the display. This is something I'm going to do within the next few days for a member who wants to have the K1 gauge cluster on his '97 600 SRAD (carbs). I need to find out what temp sensor resistance corresponds to what temperature. Then I can provide the appropriate hex data.

Or is the TL lucky enough to be able to communicate with it normally?
No, the TL is not lucky enough. There is also the Arduino required. While the TL's data protocol is 5 bytes in length, the GSXR gauge cluster expects 8 bytes.

Upper 2 lines show the TL data, lower 2 lines show the (converted) GSXR data:



JoE.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The GSXR gauge clusters expect a pretty clean square wave as the input for the speed signal as well as for the tacho signal. However, the tacho signal circuit was change somehow starting with 1000/K3 resp. 600/K5. I found that while earlier GSXR clocks worked fine on the TL, the latter ones needed an additional ~10Kohm resistor from the tacho signal to GND. Maybe this is worth a try.
I'll try it. To be sure I understand, though, you're talking about this?



The GSXR and TL fuel circuit is pretty special. While most modern bikes have a float type fuel sensor, the GSXR and TL have 1 or 2 fixed sensors (thermostat). I guess it would require some sort of converter to get the GSXR fuel light working correctly. But what exactly is required depends on your current bike of course. I did something similar to make the 1000/K5 gauge cluster work on the TL fuel sensors.
Yeah I was looking at the diagrams last night...I can make it work, but I don't want to. I'll either disable it or live with the light. I'm running this clock on a Kawasaki ZR7 and it's a generic potentiometer type sensor.

Yes, has been done many times. The only way to get rid of the CHEC message is to use an Arduino (or Teensy or...) to simulate the data protocol that the gauge cluster expects to get from the ECM. One just needs to send 8 bytes with certain content every ~400 ms. That will satisfy the gauge cluster. However, then the display will show '----' because it wants to show some temperature data. Of course it would be possible to either show some arbitrary numbers, or may be convert some real temp data into proper hex values and show that on the display. This is something I'm going to do within the next few days for a member who wants to have the K1 gauge cluster on his '97 600 SRAD (carbs). I need to find out what temp sensor resistance corresponds to what temperature. Then I can provide the appropriate hex data.

No, the TL is not lucky enough. There is also the Arduino required. While the TL's data protocol is 5 bytes in length, the GSXR gauge cluster expects 8 bytes.

JoE.
Lord yes if you get that sorted out please do post about it. Do you have a thread going somewhere about it that I can subscribe to? My end goal, if I can sort it out, is to at least make the CHEC go away and use the temp to show oil temperature (oil cooled bike).
 

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I'll try it. To be sure I understand, though, you're talking about this?
Well, not really. I'd try to use the signal that the ECM/IC igniter sends to the tacho (not the one from the spark plugs). They usually output some sort of a well shaped square wave. Try to use the resistor there. Put it as close to the gauge cluster as possible.

Yeah I was looking at the diagrams last night...I can make it work, but I don't want to. I'll either disable it or live with the light. I'm running this clock on a Kawasaki ZR7 and it's a generic potentiometer type sensor.
One could use the Arduino to read that sensor and switch the fuel light at a certain (low) reading. That's what I do for my K5:




Lord yes if you get that sorted out please do post about it.
Still waiting for the SRAD speedo to do the tests. However, I don't think that those data would help you. I'm sure the SRAD temp sensor and the ZX7-R temp (oil) sensors are different. So the required data table would be different too. The service manual usually does not help because they in most cases have just 2 or 3 test values, and the temp sensors do not have a linear resistance curve. Since it don't have a ZX7R (or some of it's sensors), I can not tell you what resistance (or voltage at the voltage divider) corresponds to what temperature. If you could/would find out yourself, I could help you with the Arduino program and the temp data table. The following is the temp table I used for the TLS Nokia data display:


/****************************************************************
* Temperature data table CENTIGRADE
*
* The ECM sends the temp data as HEX value ranging from
* 0x93 (20°C/68°F) down to 0x00 (>140°C/>284°F). We need to
* map those HEX values to DEC temp values.
*
****************************************************************/

const unsigned char tempTable[] PROGMEM =
{
140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 138, 134, 130,
126, 122, 119, 116, 114, 111, 109, 107, 105, 103, 101, 99, 97,
96, 94, 93, 91, 90, 88, 87, 86, 85, 83, 82, 81, 80,
79, 78, 77, 76, 75, 74, 73, 72, 71, 70, 70, 69, 68,
67, 67, 66, 65, 64, 63, 63, 62, 61, 61, 60, 59, 59,
58, 57, 57, 56, 56, 55, 54, 54, 53, 53, 52, 51, 51,
50, 50, 49, 49, 48, 48, 47, 47, 46, 46, 45, 45, 44,
44, 43, 43, 42, 42, 41, 41, 40, 40, 39, 39, 38, 38,
38, 37, 37, 36, 36, 35, 35, 35, 34, 34, 33, 33, 32,
32, 32, 31, 31, 30, 30, 29, 29, 29, 28, 28, 27, 27,
27, 26, 26, 26, 25, 25, 25, 24, 24, 23, 23, 23, 22,
22, 21, 21, 21, 20, 20
};



There's also a table for Fahrenheit.


Do you have a thread going somewhere about it that I can subscribe to?
Not for this specific problem. I just have 2 requests from non-TLP/TLZ SRAD owners to help them. There are some 'How-do-I-get-my-GSXR-gauge-cluster-working-on-my-TL' threads on TLZ and TLP though that deal with the Arduino data converter and how to adjust the odo by altering the EEPROM content.

My end goal, if I can sort it out, is to at least make the CHEC go away and use the temp to show oil temperature (oil cooled bike).
I also could provide the rest of the data message to get rid of the CHEC message.
 

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Forgot one point about the fuel light. Since the 600/K5 gauge cluster has internal FLLR, the fuel light should not lit if no wire is connected to the fuel pin (B/Lg), i.e. fuel circuit is open. That holds the fuel circuit's input at +12V level (via the 70ohm FLLR) and the LED does not get triggered. The fuel LED should come on only if the fuel pin (B/Lg) is pulled to <~6V (depends on the actual BAT voltage).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, not really. I'd try to use the signal that the ECM/IC igniter sends to the tacho (not the one from the spark plugs). They usually output some sort of a well shaped square wave. Try to use the resistor there. Put it as close to the gauge cluster as possible.
I'm going to try and focus on one issue at a time.

I have tried the factory tach signal but it reads double the RPM and was just as jerky.

Someone on Custom Fighters suggested running the 10kΩ resistor inline and I tried that...the result was the tach feed was much smoother below 7000rpm, but still pretty jerky above it.

I'm still trying to make sure you meant to run the resistor to ground?

I had one other suggestion to run the resistor to a 1µf capacitor and then to ground.
 

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Jo, your knowledge on the gauge cluster modifications is down right scary!!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
It's great to actually be getting some information. I tried gixxer.com first and that conversation lead to me being permanently banned.

I remember the days with forums were full of JoE's.:cheers
 

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Was busy with that SRAD to GSXR/K1 temp gauge thingy. Works like a charm btw. So one could use something like that for your oil temp.

Ok, I guess I have no idea what to do here. I don't know what the input signal looks like, what frequency, Vpp and stuff. Maybe there's just a complete mismatch. Maybe the input frequency is twice as much as the K5 expects? Or Vpp is to low/high?

Besides the fact that all GSXR gauge clusters work fine on the TL, for my test setup I use a spare wave 5Vpp and 0 to 200Hz:



So with an input frequency of 125Hz one should get similar numbers (varies a little bit depending on the model).

The 10Kohm resistor... Starting with the 600/K4 1000/K5 Suzuki obviously changed something in the tacho circuit. Those gauge clusters do not work on the TL ECM without that additional resistor. Seems that the tacho circuit's input resistance is to high (may be open collector) and requires some load to work properly.

JoE.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Everyone needs a spare wave.

I need to get an oscilloscope lol...but I think ultimately there's some kind of "interference" happening. I compared the stock clock to this one and it's spot on and SMOOTH below something like 7500rpm. It gets jumpy above. With the resistor in line, with the K5 clocks plugged into the stock feed, the output is pretty smooth but I can't compare it at high RPM (reads double and I don't want to risk damaging the clock by wrapping it around or something).

As far as the temp thing my hope was to use a GSXR coolant temp sensor...but I haven't put much research into that yet. I don't know if what the clock gets is a straight feed from the sensor, or if the clock gets the ECM's interpretation of the sensor's feed. The ZR7 doesn't have any kind of temp sensor to there's no adapting it to match the clock.
 

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As far as the temp thing my hope was to use a GSXR coolant temp sensor...
With an Arduino as a data converter/processor one could virtually make any temp sensor work. The only 'problem' is to find out what resistance (as a matter of fact it's rather the voltage in a voltage divider) corresponds to what temperature. For the 600 SRAD sensor I already have the data from 40°C to 140°C (the SRAD gauge cluster starts at 40°C only). So if you could use the SRAD sensor (34850-33E00) we already had something to start with. On the other hand, if one does not get a temp sensor installed, one could send an empty message to get rid of the CHEC info. But then, if there's no temp display, and the fuel light does not
work either, why then use the GSXR gauges at all.

I don't know if what the clock gets is a straight feed from the sensor, or if the clock gets the ECM's interpretation of the sensor's feed.
The temp info to the gauge cluster on GSXR's and TL's comes from the ECM. Byte #1 in the serial message holds the temp info.

Btw. I realized that I gave some wrong info here. This 10K resistor on the GSXR 1000/K3 (600/K4) and up is NOT tach signal to GND, but tach signal to +V. As I said in my last post there seems to be an open collector circuit, and that of course requires the resistor to +V. This is also described in the appropriate Converter Installation Instructions:



Sorry for causing some confusion here. However, I don't think this would help with your tach problem because you get at least some readings. On the K3..... there is no reading at all without this resistor.
 

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JoE, I've bought the GSXR1000 K2 gauges & the teensy with the micro cord. I also downloaded four files of what I think are the instructions? the first download and three others that I think are the code for the teensy. But I've no clue how any of this works. When I purchased the gauge I did so expecting that I would be able to send it to you. I had read that others got theirs back plugged them in & where off & running. Is this possible, is their someone that can do this the correct way & return to me?
 

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JoE, I've bought the GSXR1000 K2 gauges & the teensy with the micro cord.
I stopped using Teensy 4 years ago, in favor of Arduino Pro Micro (w/ micro USB) or Arduino Pro Mini (no USB). I do not recommend/support Teensy anymore. Arduino is smaller than Teensy (no mod to the back cover required) and it also can handle 12V because it has a 5V regulator on board.

I also downloaded four files of what I think are the instructions? the first download and three others that I think are the code for the teensy. But I've no clue how any of this works. When I purchased the gauge I did so expecting that I would be able to send it to you.
Where are you from? Any European country, then just send everything over to me. If any non-European country, then there is too much trouble with the German customs office. An hours ride to get there, argue with them what the item is worth to calculate the duties and more. What we could do then, I send you an already flashed Arduino with all the required wires connected, so you just need to cut a track on the gauge cluster PCB and solder 4 wires in place (and do the pin swap of course). If you didn't already had your K2, you could have bought it from ebay UK/Germany/France... and have the seller send it to my address. No problems with customs then.

There is also a way to adjust the K2 odo to match your TL's actual mileage. If I had your K2 I also could do that. Otherwise you need to get one of those cheap EEPROM flashers and follow these instructions.

Let's continue via pm.

JoE.
 

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Contacting U

I stopped using Teensy 4 years ago, in favor of Arduino Pro Micro (w/ micro USB) or Arduino Pro Mini (no USB). I do not recommend/support Teensy anymore. Arduino is smaller than Teensy (no mod to the back cover required) and it also can handle 12V because it has a 5V regulator on board.



Where are you from? Any European country, then just send everything over to me. If any non-European country, then there is too much trouble with the German customs office. An hours ride to get there, argue with them what the item is worth to calculate the duties and more. What we could do then, I send you an already flashed Arduino with all the required wires connected, so you just need to cut a track on the gauge cluster PCB and solder 4 wires in place (and do the pin swap of course). If you didn't already had your K2, you could have bought it from ebay UK/Germany/France... and have the seller send it to my address. No problems with customs then.

There is also a way to adjust the K2 odo to match your TL's actual mileage. If I had your K2 I also could do that. Otherwise you need to get one of those cheap EEPROM flashers and follow these instructions.

Let's continue via pm.

JoE.
I don't know how to Personal Message you as you asked in your reply. I've spoken to couple people & the last said I could PM you on TLPlanet. Which confuses me that's where I first joined to try & get in touch with U, then I was directed to the zone? I did post on here when I first read your reply my e-mail address thinking that way you could PM me on messenger, but haven't heard anything. I am replying again because I thought this was a reply to your reply but it's not. I saved the e-mail & got confused. I would like to get what I need from you the Arduino micro.
 
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