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i ordered one from shspowersports.com along with a bunch of other oem bolts i needed..costed me $50 in a dozen bolts..but nothing is nicer than oem...

like i said above i took a yoshi bolt-on map and subtracted 4 from every box...
it sounds stupid but, if the injectors are +%14 at every throttle input then all there is to do is subtract fuel at every throttle input. at every rpm to compensate for the extra %14.....

am i right or am i right ????
trust me generic maps rarely work as they should,dyno time is always going to be best no ifs or buts i think thats correct tho im sure stu or sam didnt know that:rotfl
 

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dude the principal objet of using the cbr injectors is to capitalise on the multi hole atomisation. this increases the efficiency of the burn mixture in the cylinder as there is less unburnt fuel at the end of the burn cycle. this translates in to more power per unit of fuel injected.
the engine will not make more outright power but less fuel is required to be delivered to the cylinder to achieve the same A/F reatio as measured in the exhaust. So the bike is more economical and efficient.
the consequence is the need to reduce the fuel delivery to maintain the correct A/F ratio as measured in the exhaust.
Because these injectors also flow more fuel for the same duty cycle as the std injectors then there is a need to reduce the duty cycle accordingly to maintain the A/F ratio.
It is not possible to measure the needs of the engine without a suitable load device and a suitable measuring device. A dyno provides both of these in the one package.
Itsmesteve has A/F measuing resident on his bike along with a data logger and a visual readout on the dash .
he has a constant regime of review and analysis that along with real time riding is trimming a custom map from another setup .
He is doing this not cos he can't afford a dyno run.
he's had several across several incarnations of modifications.
but to understand the process and have the experience of making the adjustments and monitoring the results.
its been a year now and he's still experimenting.
the bike rides like a dream , its a testimony to his resource and his research.


As I stated earlier this info and the process and descriptions are under the search button.

All that I have stated above in how the injection stuff works is in the responses made to you.

you just haven't understood it.

so here it is again in dumbspeak.

Its all you need to know, if you can't grasp it then the project is beyond your abilities.

motors are not simple linear response devices... there are an infinite array of considerations and only in the doing do you get to interface with them and make decisions which achieve an outcome.

the most crical bit of info you need to know in all of this..........is you are dealing with a large diplacement V twin motor ......

Almost none of the engine development info that is applied to V8 engines applies when you think turbo's.

hence the advice to find a turbo bike forum. and the info is very different again from high reving multi cylinder bike engines too.

if you open a new thread and take the time to ask relevant questions about the characteristics of TL and other V twin engines then the answers will be answered not for you sole benefit but for the education of all the members here.

but this is a thread about high flow injectors, not your turbo project .

And we are not going to hold your hand in this or any other thread and guide you thru turboing your bike.

it is the nature of this forum to support each other, but a project of your nature is one where you post your project up for the interest and education of others with people such as myself available to comment as you go should you ask .
 

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OK.. THANKS

:beer

dude the principal objet of using the cbr injectors is to capitalise on the multi hole atomisation. this increases the efficiency of the burn mixture in the cylinder as there is less unburnt fuel at the end of the burn cycle. this translates in to more power per unit of fuel injected.
the engine will not make more outright power but less fuel is required to be delivered to the cylinder to achieve the same A/F reatio as measured in the exhaust. So the bike is more economical and efficient.
the consequence is the need to reduce the fuel delivery to maintain the correct A/F ratio as measured in the exhaust.
Because these injectors also flow more fuel for the same duty cycle as the std injectors then there is a need to reduce the duty cycle accordingly to maintain the A/F ratio.
It is not possible to measure the needs of the engine without a suitable load device and a suitable measuring device. A dyno provides both of these in the one package.
Itsmesteve has A/F measuing resident on his bike along with a data logger and a visual readout on the dash .
he has a constant regime of review and analysis that along with real time riding is trimming a custom map from another setup .
He is doing this not cos he can't afford a dyno run.
he's had several across several incarnations of modifications.
but to understand the process and have the experience of making the adjustments and monitoring the results.
its been a year now and he's still experimenting.
the bike rides like a dream , its a testimony to his resource and his research.


As I stated earlier this info and the process and descriptions are under the search button.

All that I have stated above in how the injection stuff works is in the responses made to you.

you just haven't understood it.

so here it is again in dumbspeak.

Its all you need to know, if you can't grasp it then the project is beyond your abilities.

motors are not simple linear response devices... there are an infinite array of considerations and only in the doing do you get to interface with them and make decisions which achieve an outcome.

the most crical bit of info you need to know in all of this..........is you are dealing with a large diplacement V twin motor ......

Almost none of the engine development info that is applied to V8 engines applies when you think turbo's.

hence the advice to find a turbo bike forum. and the info is very different again from high reving multi cylinder bike engines too.

if you open a new thread and take the time to ask relevant questions about the characteristics of TL and other V twin engines then the answers will be answered not for you sole benefit but for the education of all the members here.

but this is a thread about high flow injectors, not your turbo project .

And we are not going to hold your hand in this or any other thread and guide you thru turboing your bike.

it is the nature of this forum to support each other, but a project of your nature is one where you post your project up for the interest and education of others with people such as myself available to comment as you go should you ask .
 

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Tlrdude.... First off, both of these guys know their chit. So talking a bunch of chit to them about how they are wrong and you know everything is definitely wrong....

Second, I did the cbr injectors a few years ago, and found the best reason to switch to them is better efficiency... Mixing that with the sv coils, and a custom tune will provide great results in that department. There is actually a decent single map running around that I had done and copied for others to use as a base. It is good enough until you get dyno time, but I wouldn't run it for more then a hundred miles or so, because you wont know what damage you are doing. Also, any time you change anything substantial in your setup a new dyno tune is advisory.
 

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Jesus, can someone please delete the rubbish out of this thread? I've been through 8 pages and all I've learnt is that some guy wants to turbo a bike......slag off a few of our most knowledgeable members.....and generally loves being a twat!
 

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I've got a more basic FI question. Or a few...

I know that the ECU sets the A/F ratio by modulating the duty cycle of the signal to the injectors, according to the map(s). So it varies the ratio of on time to off time. I sold my oscilloscope and never watched the signal. What frequency does it do this at? Is it constant-frequency or variable? Does the frequency vary with engine speed? Is it timed to engine cycle? I know that some ultra-high efficiency stratified-charge engines time injection precisely, but I assumed ours just run at a fixed frequency and the squirts average f/a to match averaged airflow, or does it attempt to add fuel timed to the air surges of the very-pulsed intake? I assume timing is not as demanding as direct-injection diesel, but is it even considered? Is the off-TIME (not percent) a performance or smoothness limitation at low PRM/low load? I assume the ECU sets fixed injector signal frequency in dedicated hardware, dividing some crystal frequency for a dedicated PWM converter, rather than a clock causing interrupts for an entirely software implementation.

My TLR has the CRB injectors, cleaned & flowed & rebuilt and pattern-checked by RC Engineering, and Sam's old variable fuel pressure regulator and gauge. So I'm wondering what the optimum fuel pressure is for these injectors. With a greater quantity of smaller holes in the CBR injectors I'm wondering whether I might benefit from lower fuel pressure before I even get into mapping. Stock bore & stroke, highly ported, reduced-diameter valve stems, bored & shortened throttle bodies.
 

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I installed Healtech´s FI Tuner Pro to my ´99 TLR. Does anyone have dyno adjusted fuel map to share? Bike has slip on exhaust, stock air filter, ATRE and airbox mod is coming soon:)
 

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I've had CBR injectors sitting on a shelf as well so I'll be watching this thread closely. Another thing I've read is that the CBR runs at 50 PSI vs 41 for the TL. I've thought about getting a different regulator. I don't know if they design injectors to work best at specific pressures. Does anyone know if the fuel pressure changes much at higher RPM. I know the regulator is supposed to keep the pressure constant, but I've heard people quote fuel pressures at idle. If it is a fixed pressure, and fuel mixture is regulated by how long the injectors cycle on and off during each compression stroke, then in theory any fuel correction for the new injectors would be a fixed percentage throughout the entire RPM range. Might even be possible to dial in the correct mixture with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I'm not at all sure about this though, and world rather not learn any lessons the hard way.
 

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Ughhh,.. after 33 pages I finally come to the one simple question I was hoping someone would ask, but there are no answers yet. Can you just lower the fuel pressure to cure the richness across the board resulting from the added injector flow?

I suspect its not near that easy and in case that was a really dumb question,... newmanpt66 asked it not me : )
 

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the short answer is yes

the correct answer is NO

the fuel pressure is needed to supply the correct spray pattern as well as the required volume / per shot.

reduce the pressure and you do reduce the flow but its not accurate and the spray pattern may reduce to a dribble .
 
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Also a 14% decrease across the board is not the correct answer.....AMHIK :devious
 

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A yosh box and someone skilled in its use ought to be able to correct the problem without hacking fuel pressures. I speak as someone who has usefully employed said combination of electronics and human. It may also be worth considering the problem from the point of view of not enough air rather than too much fuel.

Ring-in is correct (as usual - don't you get bored being right all the time? My wife tells me she does. :) ) - the fluid pressure determines spray patterns, droplet sizes, aerosol generation and a raft of other things. The base system is designed as the best compromise for the differing requirements across the rev range and usually, unless you are customizing the entire process flow, its one element that is best left alone.
 
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