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HELP! Bought TL1000R tonight with FI Fault

5K views 53 replies 6 participants last post by  CrashB 
#1 ·
Hey Guys,

So, I'll try and keep this brief. I picked up a 2000 TL1000R this evening. This bike has clearly had a life - it's had 13 owners.

I did the deal over eBay and went to collect tonight.

When I got there, I literally pulled up on the drive and I could hear a starter motor turning continuously! It was the owner, leaned over the bike, panicking because despite the ignition being OFF, the motor still turned over. The battery was frying, and very hot, and there was smoke coming from under the fairing - from the starter motor I think. It was left hand side in the sprocket area. I disconnect the battery PDQ.

The guy is an engineer, so he rigged up a large 17Amp Yuasa battery (bike's battery flat for all the turning over). As soon as you linked the battery to the terminals, the bike turned over - even with the ignition OFF. Turned the ignition on, and after a few turns, the bike fired into life. It was popping and banging a lot, but ran OK-ish.

Turned it off, and repeated the process again, and the bike fired up and popped and banged badly on revving and particularly on overrun (LOUD Viper race system fitted).

Wired original battery back in and bike would not start, and 'FI' is showing on the LCD, and the FI/Temp/Oil LED is flashing. Tried an hour later and the bike will not start on LCD/LED remains on.

They guy wanted £1500, I bought it, after haggling, knowing the above for £800!

The bike came with a receipt and workshop log from June last year that said 'Bike will not start', 'possible fuel issue'. New pump relay was fitted, pump checked for operation and it ran. Also had service and new back tyre. The bike has not been used since, and the seller (who bought this bike from the guy who had it fixed above) paid £2000 for it. He did not pass his test so has sold the bike, and he swears it ran fine last week.

Incidentally, when the battery is now connected, it doesn't try and turn over by itself.

So guys, I bought a project TL1000R very cheaply and am happy to be patient. I could probably break it and get more than my money back. But I like a challenge and like 'saving' these things.

So, ideas on:

1. The 'turning over by itself' issue? (I've bought a new starter relay from eBay this evening).
2. The popping and banging (fuel very very old and stale)?
3. The FI in the LCD and flashing LED

Simple methodical fix, or break it up/part it out? Tempted to take it to a very competent Suzuki specialist who understands FI. It's got to be electrical ….. If anyone know a really excellent specialist here in the UK, please advise.

Sorry for the long thread.

Thanks

BSR67
 
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#2 ·
1. Replace the starter relay with a genuine Suzuki one.
3. Put it into dealer mode (plenty of info on here about how to do that) and see what the error code is.
2. 3 will probably answer that for you

If no-one else has explained why the above by morning I'll elaborate then. Too sleepy now lol
 
#13 ·
To be fair, the bike didn't die of its own accord I think from memory we turned it off each time. That said, there was rather a lot going on - I had a panicked seller who was seeing what he thought was going to be a £2500 dissipate. It did pop and bang A LOT! Not ruling out ECU!

BSR67
 
#15 ·
OK, so I have found the Fuel Pump Relay. Clipped next to the ECU.

When I hook up the multimeter, there is 12v between the yellow/red and brown/white. Nothing between the other two.

The spade connectors look a little dirty/nasty.

The relay is new (previous owner - I've ordered new from Suzuki) marked CA1a-12V-A-5 and ACA1215 MO1

When the ignition is turned on, the relay clicks, the LED in tacho lights solid for two/three seconds and the relay clicks again and the LED then blinks and the LCD reads FI. The pump does not run/whirr/prime.

Should there be power across the other two lines?

Will keep digging.

BSR67 Electrical wiring Wire Cable Electrical supply Technology
 
#16 ·
OK, really worried now.

Have just been reading the Suzuki Genuine Workshop manual. It says 'Removing the battery terminal of a running engine is strictly prohibited. The moment such removal is made, damaging counter electromotive force will be applied to the ECM which MAY result in serious damage.

B*gger.

Yesterday the seller took the battery off and rigged an external battery. He took it off whilst running. I asked him how it still ran without a battery. We then started it again, and I think he disconnected. Then, we put the (bike) battery back on and I can't remember if it started. It was soon after this that the FI LED flashed etc.

In the manual, C41 is:
Fuel pump relay circuit open or short
Fuel pump relay malfunction (its new)
ECM malfunction

I do wonder whether the ECM was fried yesterday.

Any one in the UK got a 32920-02FA0 ECM I can borrow/for sale to test for running?

Thanks

BSR67
 
#17 ·
#19 ·
Any vehicle with a computer should not have the battery unhooked while running. The battery serves as a "filter" to prevent voltage spikes from frying things. WE old codgers used to unhook the battery to check whether the charging system was working, we had to unlearn that. :laugh

While you're waiting on the new computer you might want to check the white and yellow connectors under the left ram air cover for corrosion. It's a common problem. Clean the connections and apply a bit of dielectric grease. Might prevent other gremlins form popping up.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for the advice.

ECM has been dispatched but not home until Friday. I should have a fuel pump relay, fuel pump, starter relay and ECM waiting when I get home!

I messaged the guy I bought it from - he says he started it weekly without an issue.

Thanks for the tips on the wires. What do they feed?

Finding a lot of loom gremlins. Sense I have a lot of repairs and upgraded to do!
 
#22 ·
Thanks CrashB

My plan is to get it running again (hopefully reliably!) and then I'll go to town on effecting the various repairs it needs, including the wiring. I've ordered a replacement four pin plug that goes into the starter relay - shows signs of heat/melting.

Interestingly, the manual says to never turn over for more than five seconds - serious risk to the relay.

Thanks

BSR67
 
#25 ·
OK, officially very EMBARRASSED!

My son and I fixed it! Thanks to a post on the forum - it turned out (after buying an ECM, Starter Relay, Fuel Pump Relay AND Fuel Pump), that the problem was ..................... the 10 Amp Fuel Pump FUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of which there was a spare in the bike!

The downside was, when we fired it up at 1am, I had a VERY Angry wife burst into the garage! The viper cans are a little loud!

It is popping and banging a lot on the right hand exhaust - its not been run for a year and was throwing flames. Fuel is old and I pray its only that. I'll put fresh fuel in tomorrow and see how we go.

Oh well, at least I've got a good spares inventory now!

Thanks

BSR67
 
#26 ·
OK, officially very EMBARRASSED!

My son and I fixed it! Thanks to a post on the forum - it turned out (after buying an ECM, Starter Relay, Fuel Pump Relay AND Fuel Pump), that the problem was ..................... the 10 Amp Fuel Pump FUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ....
.....

Oh well, at least I've got a good spares inventory now!

Thanks

BSR67
Congrats on a successful backyard troubleshooting expedition! :laugh That's the thrill of buying old bikes. They will put your skills to the test. Don't be too embarrassed. You are not the first to overlook the obvious. Been there myself. :coocoo


By now, I nearly have enough parts to build a third TL..... :lol:lol
 
#31 ·
OK, so not fully out of the woods yet.

Put fresh fuel in - all the popping and banging stopped.

Put road legal cans on.

Left the garage and pottered around local roads - all well.

Then suddenly, at tick over or just above, the bike died and the dreaded FI signal and flashing LED came up. Would crank but not start. So, I turned it off and turned it on again and it started and ran.

This pattern repeated about 4 times - I was running on the original ECU and figured perhaps it was damaged so changed to the new one. Thought I'd cracked it as I left it running on the stand for about twenty minutes if not more and from tick over (which is too low - circa 800-900 rpm which I cannot seem to adjust) it stalled without any intervention and the LED flashed and FI came up on the LCD. Turned it off and turned it on - FI error, turned it off and turned it on - no error and started and ran.

Just been out to the garage again and it has started on the button three times without an issue.

Low fuel pressure or error due to low tick over? The adjuster knob doesn't have any effect.

And for good measure, there's a dirty great oil leak from the clutch inspection cover gasket! I've ordered the new O ring!

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome.

Thanks

BSR67
 
#32 ·
The idle adjuster not working is probably die to someone turning the cable far enough that it came off at the throttle body. You'll have to do some disassembly to find it, but that was usually the cause.

If you left it running on the stand for 20 minutes the bike was HOT. Really hot. I'd ride it and see if you fixed it. Of course, I'd ride it close to home until I was sure. :laugh
 
#33 ·
Thanks - I'll get under the tank soon and investigate.

Was thinking the same thing - ride it/get a few miles on it close to home (pushing distance and carrying spares!) and see what gives. It has been standing for 13 months without use. Maybe (hopefully) it will iron out.

And yes it was hot - 107 degrees when the fans kicked in.

BSR67
 
#35 ·
I mention that the bike was so hot only because there had been others who had the TL shut off on them when it got hot. It happened enough that there was a discussion about whether there was a shutoff programmed into the software. Anyhow, it will be interesting to see what happens when you ride it a bit.
 
#36 ·
I'll update after a run. Probably won't be until next weekend as I have to get the bike through roadworthiness test (MOT test herein the UK). It's booked in for next Friday.

I will have spares with me! And tools!

I'll be fixing the 'Exxon Valdez' oil leak from the clutch inspection cover on Sunday though (at least I hope the new o-ring fixes it!).

Think this bike has had a slighty hard life ... !

Thanks

BSR67
 
#37 ·
HELP please Guys!

So, I have been working away on the TLR. It has been starting and running Ok, broadly, except tick over far too low, and it would at tick over occasionally die and the FI LED would light up and it would read FI in the LCD.

Turning the bike off, and turning the bike on again at the ignition cured it.

So, I am madly preparing it for its UK roadworthiness test this morning and I started it twice - all good.

The next thing I know, I turned the ignition on, it read 'CHEC' and then started when I hit the button.

I then stopped it and it will NOT restart. It cranks, but nothing - doesn't even try to fire. When turning the ignition, the fuel pump primes, but nothing. If i leave the ignition on and flick the kill switch, it primes again when switched to run.

Dealer mode cays -C00

I have checked spark - nice blue spark, but the plug is DRY.

So, 99% certain it is not receiving fuel! I know that the pump was removed last summer by a motorcycle shop that got it running after problems.

I have replaced the ECM, the fuel pump relay is a brand new genuine Suzuki item, and I've changed the starter relay for genuine Suzuki too.

Could it be the pump? Low pressure? I have a replacement but everyone says avoid opening the tank - I don't see I have a lot of choice.

Are there in line filters that might by clogged?

My only other observation is that the plugs are sooty - but the bike has been started and stopped a lot. Fouled?

Recommendations please!

The only other thing to say is that I replaced all the fairings and it don't run after that. Whether I've knocked something? Broken wire?

Thanks
 
#38 ·
When you turn the bike off to remove the key it cancels the error code. You need to be able to put it into dealer mode without turning the power off to find what code it throws.

CHEC usually displays if you have the bike in gear and side stand down, or if the killswitch is in OFF mode. There are other causes too, but those are the most common in my experience.
 
#39 ·
Thanks CrashB

I changed the rear spark plug with a used one (from my old R1). Started up. It cut out - FI LED/FI LCD. Turned it off, turned it on and it started again. Tried two or three times more and it ran each time.

It's sitting in the back of my van because I have an MOT booked at 3pm (was 12:30). I'm pretty anxious to get it on the road so that I can really test it fully. There's only so much you can do in a cul-de-sac!

I'm 99% that there's something intermittent going on. It also is trying to kick the starter momentarily when it wants to!

There are lots of cuts and repairs into the loom. I do know that it used to have a keyless alarm system on it. Do wonder whether this has buggered the loom.

Bloody rear brake light switch has failed - was working last night. Grrrrrrr. Hoping tester will be lenient - front switch works. I'll let you know how it all goes.

BSR67
 
#40 ·
There are lots of cuts and repairs into the loom. I do know that it used to have a keyless alarm system on it. Do wonder whether this has buggered the loom.
For sure it has. You are NOT the first person to have an alarm cause issues....

But like Crash says, codes are deleted every time you cycle the ignition, so keep the dealer plug bridged at ALL TIMES. Report back if you ever see anything other than c00.
 
#41 ·
Thanks - will keep the dealer plug bridged.

On the upside, the bike passed it's MOT (roadworthiness) test!

When it stops raining (Grrrrrr), I can at least get some miles on it to see if some of the issues iron out (will be taking tools/spares!!!!).

Thx

BSR67
 
#42 ·
Guys,

OK so went for my first run out on the TLR since purchase last week and various elements of work (replacement ECM/Fuel Pump Relay/Starter Relay). Have done a shed load of other jobs too - new grips, levers, taken all the nasty aftermarket decals off, put the proper colour matched front mudguard, original silencers on and so on!

Anyway, ran well - it did do the 'die and flashing FI LED/FI in LCD' trick twice and BOTH times it was when drawing to a stop and I let the revs die - as we know it is only ticking over at 800 rpm until I sort the frozen throttle adjust/set the TPS/balance the bodies. I very much get the sense the cutting out is being triggered by the system because its too low rather than a fault with the system per se - that's what I'm hoping anyway. When under load, when cruising, when ridden hard, there are no issues - except the very occasional cough when accelerating out of a corner - but that's probably balance/TPS and crappy injection mapping.

So, I managed to do 76 miles to a bike meet, and on the way home, a further 14 miles, the LED came on and the engine died. When we left the bike meet, I simply got the dreaded click and we bumped the bike. 14 miles later it died. The Red LED came on and the fuel low light flickered. Battery appeared totally flat.

The battery was absolutely red hot on inspection and touch, and also, we we parked up (twice) both my son and I commented on the 'what is that sulferous smell!!??'.

I rode my sons bike home, picked up the van and got the bike home. The battery indicated 13.1v but it would not crank the bike. I fitted a spare charged at 12.8v and the bike started straight away. Rode for 2 miles and came home - tested voltage across the terminals with the engine running - 12.8v.

Unplugged the alternator (the 3 yellow wires) with the engine running and got 56+ volts AC. Test the red/black coming out of the regulator - absolutely zip. Suspect regulator dead - but why was the battery absolutely frying and super hot??

I have a confession to make - the battery I was using had been sitting for 12 months. I thought it was OK - a Yuasa.

So, BEFORE i buy my way out of what I think the problem is (Regulator/Battery), your advice will be very welcome.

Sorry for the length of this .......... I'll be able to write a memoire at this rate!

BSR67
 
#43 ·
IIRC idle speed is 1200 rpm, so yes, that's probably the reason for the stalling at idle.

There's a really good post on troubleshooting the charging system around here somewhere. I'm sure someone will remember where it is. Six is usually good at that. :yes
 
#44 ·
OK so, an update ....

Bought a brand new battery, and a Mosfet Regulator/Rectifier. I now have 14.4v across the terminals with the engine running which is great news.

Today, I pulled the tank and airbox so that I could tackle the seized tick over adjuster. Was sure the cutting out/FI LCD/FI LED flash was because 800 rpm is too slow.

Adjuster was seized - lots of WD40 and persuasion with some pliers and it now works a treat. Set tick over at 1200 rpm and within seconds the old girl did it's party piece - cut out at tick over, FI in LCD, FI LED. Didn't check dealer mode. Turning it off and on twice, it cleared and started and ran fine for the rest of the afternoon.

Planning a decent run tomorrow. Still got an intermittent FI issue at low revs ONLY. It runs/rides absolutely 100%. Let it get warm and tick over and the gremlins take over!

Any ideas?

Thanks

BSR67
 
#45 ·
..... within seconds the old girl did it's party piece - cut out at tick over, FI in LCD, FI LED. Didn't check dealer mode. Turning it off and on twice, it cleared and started and ran fine for the rest of the afternoon.

Planning a decent run tomorrow. Still got an intermittent FI issue at low revs ONLY. It runs/rides absolutely 100%. Let it get warm and tick over and the gremlins take over!

Any ideas?

Thanks

BSR67

The "gremlins" would be easier to identify if you would take the time to read the code instead of simply clearing it.
 
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