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Discussion Starter #41
Thanks - will keep the dealer plug bridged.

On the upside, the bike passed it's MOT (roadworthiness) test!

When it stops raining (Grrrrrr), I can at least get some miles on it to see if some of the issues iron out (will be taking tools/spares!!!!).

Thx

BSR67
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Guys,

OK so went for my first run out on the TLR since purchase last week and various elements of work (replacement ECM/Fuel Pump Relay/Starter Relay). Have done a shed load of other jobs too - new grips, levers, taken all the nasty aftermarket decals off, put the proper colour matched front mudguard, original silencers on and so on!

Anyway, ran well - it did do the 'die and flashing FI LED/FI in LCD' trick twice and BOTH times it was when drawing to a stop and I let the revs die - as we know it is only ticking over at 800 rpm until I sort the frozen throttle adjust/set the TPS/balance the bodies. I very much get the sense the cutting out is being triggered by the system because its too low rather than a fault with the system per se - that's what I'm hoping anyway. When under load, when cruising, when ridden hard, there are no issues - except the very occasional cough when accelerating out of a corner - but that's probably balance/TPS and crappy injection mapping.

So, I managed to do 76 miles to a bike meet, and on the way home, a further 14 miles, the LED came on and the engine died. When we left the bike meet, I simply got the dreaded click and we bumped the bike. 14 miles later it died. The Red LED came on and the fuel low light flickered. Battery appeared totally flat.

The battery was absolutely red hot on inspection and touch, and also, we we parked up (twice) both my son and I commented on the 'what is that sulferous smell!!??'.

I rode my sons bike home, picked up the van and got the bike home. The battery indicated 13.1v but it would not crank the bike. I fitted a spare charged at 12.8v and the bike started straight away. Rode for 2 miles and came home - tested voltage across the terminals with the engine running - 12.8v.

Unplugged the alternator (the 3 yellow wires) with the engine running and got 56+ volts AC. Test the red/black coming out of the regulator - absolutely zip. Suspect regulator dead - but why was the battery absolutely frying and super hot??

I have a confession to make - the battery I was using had been sitting for 12 months. I thought it was OK - a Yuasa.

So, BEFORE i buy my way out of what I think the problem is (Regulator/Battery), your advice will be very welcome.

Sorry for the length of this .......... I'll be able to write a memoire at this rate!

BSR67
 

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IIRC idle speed is 1200 rpm, so yes, that's probably the reason for the stalling at idle.

There's a really good post on troubleshooting the charging system around here somewhere. I'm sure someone will remember where it is. Six is usually good at that. :yes
 

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Discussion Starter #44
OK so, an update ....

Bought a brand new battery, and a Mosfet Regulator/Rectifier. I now have 14.4v across the terminals with the engine running which is great news.

Today, I pulled the tank and airbox so that I could tackle the seized tick over adjuster. Was sure the cutting out/FI LCD/FI LED flash was because 800 rpm is too slow.

Adjuster was seized - lots of WD40 and persuasion with some pliers and it now works a treat. Set tick over at 1200 rpm and within seconds the old girl did it's party piece - cut out at tick over, FI in LCD, FI LED. Didn't check dealer mode. Turning it off and on twice, it cleared and started and ran fine for the rest of the afternoon.

Planning a decent run tomorrow. Still got an intermittent FI issue at low revs ONLY. It runs/rides absolutely 100%. Let it get warm and tick over and the gremlins take over!

Any ideas?

Thanks

BSR67
 

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..... within seconds the old girl did it's party piece - cut out at tick over, FI in LCD, FI LED. Didn't check dealer mode. Turning it off and on twice, it cleared and started and ran fine for the rest of the afternoon.

Planning a decent run tomorrow. Still got an intermittent FI issue at low revs ONLY. It runs/rides absolutely 100%. Let it get warm and tick over and the gremlins take over!

Any ideas?

Thanks

BSR67

The "gremlins" would be easier to identify if you would take the time to read the code instead of simply clearing it.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
I'm going to purchase a dealer switch, rather than use a piece of wire, so that I can keep it in dealer mode constantly.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
The "gremlins" would be easier to identify if you would take the time to read the code instead of simply clearing it.
Guys, Six5

I went for a 90 mile run on my TLR.

The condition is that, on tick over (no throttle) or over run (no throttle), occasionally, the engine cuts and I get the Flashing FI LED and FI in the LCD.

So, on Six5's advice, I stopped and placed the bike in dealer mode with a wire captured under the cover of the Plug.

When the bike cuts, it shows C23 - Tip Over Sensor. Turn the bike off, and turn it on, and it clears to C00 and off we go, until it cuts again. In a 90 mile run, it cut about 8 times. C23 each time. It never does it when calling for fuel (throttle/load), only at tick over (no throttle) and never at engine speeds over 2,000-2,500 rpm.

So, tip over sensor issue.

Simply replace, or are they a service item?

Also, in terms of reading resistance across the two terminals, what should it read, and on what scale on the multimeter.

Finally, is there a bypass?

Thanks

BSR67
 

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Discussion Starter #48
I've removed the TOS. They do get very hot above that rear cylinder!

Using my multimeter, with red to brown/white (could be black/white - wires a bit grubby) and black to black, I am getting 68k Ohms.

The TOS rattles, as one would expect.

When the TOS is turned through 90 degrees, it still reads 68k Ohms. I would have thought it would drop, emulating the tip over action of the bike?

Thx
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Ok, at the risk of becoming a bore ..

I pulled the TOS off and opened it up.

First things first - in the first photograph I have marked the 'Top' with tape. Is this thing fitted the right way up? I do wonder given the quality of some of the former spattering I have found.

View attachment 59640

Then, when the sensor's ring is at the centre (on the plastic, I get 68k Ohms), just as I do when it is left or right. See photographs:

IMG_5694.jpg
IMG_5695.jpg
IMG_5696.jpg
View attachment 59648

With the TOS out of its holder, I can rotate it through 90 degrees off horizontal and even after waiting 8 seconds, it doesn't cut the engine.

Guidance welcome, thank you.

I have bought a second hand item, plus a 68k Ohm resistor to fox the system as the ultimate test.

BSR67
 

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.....

I pulled the TOS off and opened it up.

First things first - in the first photograph I have marked the 'Top' with tape as it came off the bike. Is this thing fitted the right way up? I do wonder given the quality of some of the former spannering I have found. See below ....

View attachment 59640

.....

BSR67
Congrats BSR67! You just discovered the problem. :thumbup The TOS was indeed upside down.

The 68K ohm value is correct, and it should short to zero ohms when the ring touches the side contacts. However, when the ring touches, the error code is not generated immediately. There is a couple second delay in the ECM in order to weed out random contact events. Apparently, when you were revving and moving there was enough vibration in the unit to keep it from satisfying the error code criteria.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Congrats BSR67! You just discovered the problem. :thumbup The TOS was indeed upside down.

The 68K ohm value is correct, and it should short to zero ohms when the ring touches the side contacts. However, when the ring touches, the error code is not generated immediately. There is a couple second delay in the ECM in order to weed out random contact events. Apparently, when you were revving and moving there was enough vibration in the unit to keep it from satisfying the error code criteria.

Thanks Six5.

So, I'm (cautiously) pleased to advise that having turned the sensor over the right way, I have just done circa 23-24 miles with a lot of rolling down hills off the throttle, a lot of 30 mph zones in 5th on tick over with no throttle .......... and it never shut down ONCE!

Big relief. When it bolls down to it, my £800 TL1000R only needed a new starter relay, battery, regulator/rectifier, a 10 Amp fuse for the fuel pump relay, and ........ the TOS turning over!

Thanks for all your help.

I have to say, I really enjoy riding the TLR. Lovely lazy engine, and you need to muscle it a tad. My other ride is a 2017 S1000R Sport which is beautiful, and like a surgeons knife, but there's something really satisfying about the old TL Twin!

BSR67
 
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