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Discussion Starter #1
Hey Guys,

So, I'll try and keep this brief. I picked up a 2000 TL1000R this evening. This bike has clearly had a life - it's had 13 owners.

I did the deal over eBay and went to collect tonight.

When I got there, I literally pulled up on the drive and I could hear a starter motor turning continuously! It was the owner, leaned over the bike, panicking because despite the ignition being OFF, the motor still turned over. The battery was frying, and very hot, and there was smoke coming from under the fairing - from the starter motor I think. It was left hand side in the sprocket area. I disconnect the battery PDQ.

The guy is an engineer, so he rigged up a large 17Amp Yuasa battery (bike's battery flat for all the turning over). As soon as you linked the battery to the terminals, the bike turned over - even with the ignition OFF. Turned the ignition on, and after a few turns, the bike fired into life. It was popping and banging a lot, but ran OK-ish.

Turned it off, and repeated the process again, and the bike fired up and popped and banged badly on revving and particularly on overrun (LOUD Viper race system fitted).

Wired original battery back in and bike would not start, and 'FI' is showing on the LCD, and the FI/Temp/Oil LED is flashing. Tried an hour later and the bike will not start on LCD/LED remains on.

They guy wanted £1500, I bought it, after haggling, knowing the above for £800!

The bike came with a receipt and workshop log from June last year that said 'Bike will not start', 'possible fuel issue'. New pump relay was fitted, pump checked for operation and it ran. Also had service and new back tyre. The bike has not been used since, and the seller (who bought this bike from the guy who had it fixed above) paid £2000 for it. He did not pass his test so has sold the bike, and he swears it ran fine last week.

Incidentally, when the battery is now connected, it doesn't try and turn over by itself.

So guys, I bought a project TL1000R very cheaply and am happy to be patient. I could probably break it and get more than my money back. But I like a challenge and like 'saving' these things.

So, ideas on:

1. The 'turning over by itself' issue? (I've bought a new starter relay from eBay this evening).
2. The popping and banging (fuel very very old and stale)?
3. The FI in the LCD and flashing LED

Simple methodical fix, or break it up/part it out? Tempted to take it to a very competent Suzuki specialist who understands FI. It's got to be electrical ….. If anyone know a really excellent specialist here in the UK, please advise.

Sorry for the long thread.

Thanks

BSR67
 

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Adrenaline Junky
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1. Replace the starter relay with a genuine Suzuki one.
3. Put it into dealer mode (plenty of info on here about how to do that) and see what the error code is.
2. 3 will probably answer that for you

If no-one else has explained why the above by morning I'll elaborate then. Too sleepy now lol
 

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Discussion Starter #3
1. Replace the starter relay with a genuine Suzuki one.
3. Put it into dealer mode (plenty of info on here about how to do that) and see what the error code is.
2. 3 will probably answer that for you

If no-one else has explained why the above by morning I'll elaborate then. Too sleepy now lol
Thanks CrashB. Won't be able to fiddle until tomorrow.

Need also to charge the battery! It's pretty flat. Forgot to say, the LED flashes with a regular pattern. It's not glowing or anything else.

Thanks

BSR67
 

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Discussion Starter #4
1. Replace the starter relay with a genuine Suzuki one.
3. Put it into dealer mode (plenty of info on here about how to do that) and see what the error code is.
2. 3 will probably answer that for you

If no-one else has explained why the above by morning I'll elaborate then. Too sleepy now lol
I've placed the bike in Dealer Mode - and the LCD reads C41 - fuel pump relay.

I've ordered a new one, a starter relay and fuel pump.
 

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Adrenaline Junky
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1. Replace the starter relay with a genuine Suzuki one.
3. Put it into dealer mode (plenty of info on here about how to do that) and see what the error code is.
2. 3 will probably answer that for you

If no-one else has explained why the above by morning I'll elaborate then. Too sleepy now lol
As promised, now that I am awake...

1. Cheap after market (chinese) relays are notorious for causing this issue. They 'weld' themselves open, so continue to try and turn the bike over, even when the key is no-where nearby. Its not just TLs that do this with aftermarket relays, I just fixed a friends Aprilia which had the same issue. You need to get a genuine (expensive) starter relay from Suzuki, or a second hand genuine from Ebay.

3. As you have said, C41 is the fuel punp relay issue. That explains the cause of number 2 as well. Again, genuine relays is the best way to go, but if you are still having trouble then you need to check that the fuel pump relay is getting the signal on the orange/blue wire. A quick check through the site will give you a run down on how to troubleshoot the various other possible causes.

Any issues then check back with us :thumbup
 

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C41 is the fuel pump relay issue.
BSR67,

Firstly listen to Crash and get an OEM STARTER relay. It is toast 100%.

With electricity just coursing through your system. I am guessing the c41 is the dreaded c41. Meaning the transistor in your ECU is fried. Meaning your FP relay is FINE (do not replace).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
As promised, now that I am awake...

1. Cheap after market (chinese) relays are notorious for causing this issue. They 'weld' themselves open, so continue to try and turn the bike over, even when the key is no-where nearby. Its not just TLs that do this with aftermarket relays, I just fixed a friends Aprilia which had the same issue. You need to get a genuine (expensive) starter relay from Suzuki, or a second hand genuine from Ebay.

3. As you have said, C41 is the fuel punp relay issue. That explains the cause of number 2 as well. Again, genuine relays is the best way to go, but if you are still having trouble then you need to check that the fuel pump relay is getting the signal on the orange/blue wire. A quick check through the site will give you a run down on how to troubleshoot the various other possible causes.

Any issues then check back with us :thumbup
Thanks CrashB,

So, I have bought a genuine Suzuki Fuel Pump relay. £21 from Fowlers in Bristol.

I have bought a genuine Suzuki Starter relay from eBay although it is used. I've also bought a Chinese special which I won't use, but can use for testing.

I'm going to go to war with a multi meter this evening, so will feedback. Found a very interesting article from 2006 on here - a guy had exactly the same issue with a TLS. Turned out to be a broken/corroded/failed wire on the supply side of the relay (after the fuse).


Thx

BSR67
 

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Discussion Starter #8
BSR67,

Firstly listen to Crash and get an OEM STARTER relay. It is toast 100%.

With electricity just coursing through your system. I am guessing the c41 is the dreaded c41. Meaning the transistor in your ECU is fried. Meaning your FP relay is FINE (do not replace).
Have bought a pump - going to do the simple things first.

If the ECU transistor was fried, would it run at all? It did run and then died after about three start ups (despite it not running too cleanly).

thx

BSR67
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks - will do.

How often is it ECU fault vs wiring/loom/relay/fuse/pump? Any idea?

Thx

BSR67
 

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Have bought a pump - going to do the simple things first.

If the ECU transistor was fried, would it run at all? It did run and then died after about three start ups (despite it not running too cleanly).

thx

BSR67
It will run then die...

:laugh

But that's not funny.

Step 1: Replace starter relay with Suzuki bit.
Step 2: Ensure bike isn't going renegade with key off.

Report back...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
To be fair, the bike didn't die of its own accord I think from memory we turned it off each time. That said, there was rather a lot going on - I had a panicked seller who was seeing what he thought was going to be a £2500 dissipate. It did pop and bang A LOT! Not ruling out ECU!

BSR67
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Intrigued! Why?

Pump was taken out in June last year and it's not turned a wheel since.

BSR67
 

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Discussion Starter #15
OK, so I have found the Fuel Pump Relay. Clipped next to the ECU.

When I hook up the multimeter, there is 12v between the yellow/red and brown/white. Nothing between the other two.

The spade connectors look a little dirty/nasty.

The relay is new (previous owner - I've ordered new from Suzuki) marked CA1a-12V-A-5 and ACA1215 MO1

When the ignition is turned on, the relay clicks, the LED in tacho lights solid for two/three seconds and the relay clicks again and the LED then blinks and the LCD reads FI. The pump does not run/whirr/prime.

Should there be power across the other two lines?

Will keep digging.

BSR67 TLR Fuel Relay.png
 

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Discussion Starter #16
OK, really worried now.

Have just been reading the Suzuki Genuine Workshop manual. It says 'Removing the battery terminal of a running engine is strictly prohibited. The moment such removal is made, damaging counter electromotive force will be applied to the ECM which MAY result in serious damage.

B*gger.

Yesterday the seller took the battery off and rigged an external battery. He took it off whilst running. I asked him how it still ran without a battery. We then started it again, and I think he disconnected. Then, we put the (bike) battery back on and I can't remember if it started. It was soon after this that the FI LED flashed etc.

In the manual, C41 is:
Fuel pump relay circuit open or short
Fuel pump relay malfunction (its new)
ECM malfunction

I do wonder whether the ECM was fried yesterday.

Any one in the UK got a 32920-02FA0 ECM I can borrow/for sale to test for running?

Thanks

BSR67
 

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As the Goblin King said: 'That'd do it'.

Cheapest I've found in the UK: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-TL1000R-TL1000-R-1998-2003-CDI-Igniter-Box-Unit/312160433867?hash=item48ae3636cb:g:xikAAOSwL4lbIS0~&redirect=mobile or https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUZUKI-TL-1000-R-1998-2004-CDI-USED-MOTORCYCLE-PARTS/192701144984?hash=item2cdde21f98:g:9nEAAOxyYANTa1h-&redirect=mobile.

TBH at that price I'd be tempted by one if I had the money... Getting harder and harder to find reasonable priced components :(
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks CrashB

Have purchased ………..

I'll update when the unit lands.

BSR67
 

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Any vehicle with a computer should not have the battery unhooked while running. The battery serves as a "filter" to prevent voltage spikes from frying things. WE old codgers used to unhook the battery to check whether the charging system was working, we had to unlearn that. :laugh

While you're waiting on the new computer you might want to check the white and yellow connectors under the left ram air cover for corrosion. It's a common problem. Clean the connections and apply a bit of dielectric grease. Might prevent other gremlins form popping up.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Any vehicle with a computer should not have the battery unhooked while running. The battery serves as a "filter" to prevent voltage spikes from frying things. WE old codgers used to unhook the battery to check whether the charging system was working, we had to unlearn that. :laugh

While you're waiting on the new computer you might want to check the white and yellow connectors under the left ram air cover for corrosion. It's a common problem. Clean the connections and apply a bit of dielectric grease. Might prevent other gremlins form popping up.
Thanks for the advice.

ECM has been dispatched but not home until Friday. I should have a fuel pump relay, fuel pump, starter relay and ECM waiting when I get home!

I messaged the guy I bought it from - he says he started it weekly without an issue.

Thanks for the tips on the wires. What do they feed?

Finding a lot of loom gremlins. Sense I have a lot of repairs and upgraded to do!
 
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