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I got all my TLS fork upgrade stuff, but don't have time to mess with it, but the stuff is sweet.

Updates soon!:devious
 

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OldTLSDoug has already done a fantastic write up/pictorial on fork work that should be on this board....
 

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hey Doug can´t U move to sweden and buy the house next door from me so I can hang out in your garage learning to do all these cool mods U master :hail
 

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Do you guys have nuclear power over there? Do you have year round riding? Do you have a racetrack seven minutes from your house? If the answer to all these questions is yes, you might....might just entice him! :laugh
 

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nuclear power :yes year round riding well hmm bike summer snomobile winter so :yes
and racetrack 7 minutes away ehh depends on how crazy he is :laugh
 

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Doug when you go to take the cartridge apart if you have not done so yet it will be helpfull to have a can of electronic cold spray or similar. It is used in the electronics world to freeze components to find defective ones. I used this and a propane torch to heat the rebound valve holder which is put on with permanent locktite at the factory, the aluminum rod expands quickly so I used the cold spray on the damper rod to shrink it and help break things lose. Also just used a small file to grind the end down to get the lock nuts of the compression valve and the rebound valve, found it easier to control than a grinder. Also it takes a lot of heat to get the stupid locktite to let go, more than you would think is safe for the valve and the seal material. You will also need to make or buy a tool to get the cartridge itself apart. I made one from a piece of steel and bored a hole the dia of the OD of the cartridge then put 4 Allen screws in it to engage the refill holes in the cartridge. On disassembly start at the compression valve assymbly and heat it first to get it out of the end of the cartridge, then heat the cartridge at the other end to seperate the tube parts, this is where you need the cartridge holder and the end piece with the 4 allens to seperate the cartridge itself. Here is a pic of a disassembled cartridge.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/flash5/forkpic2.jpg

Also for those of you just doing a compression valve change ie. a Race Tech Gold Valve then you only need to take out the bottom valve assymbly not take the whole cartridge apart.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Doug. I made a holder and it works good, I have the rebound pistons out and also he recommended drillling the cup for the bottoming piston to regain the travel and still have bottom out protection if you are going to wheelie. I will take pictures of all this.

I have 3 sets of cartridges to practice with and I have the rebound pistons out. I had to smooth the shaft to get the piston off, the edge just below the threads was sharp and held it up. I use the torch and it works great. I have to surface the rebound pistons so the new valving will work right. I just need to figure out where to get it done.

More to come, I am on nights so progress is slow.:banghead
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Doug I made a tool that works pretty well, what will you charge me for one like yours?
Do you have a picture?

 

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Here we go pictures to start us off.

Again I am piecemealing the assembly. I am using spare compression and rebound parts and will hopefully get it all apart and assembled soon. I will change the seals, maybe the bushings (doubtful, haven't seen many bad ones) and use Motorex 5 wt. oil per GP suspension's recommendation, also I plan to set the level at the stock 100 mm or so.

I have an album going with the stuff I am doing and will update it. It is here

Anyway, for my $376.00 I got the following, along with all the phone assistance from Dave I need. He is a great guy, very patient. Nice stuff.

Click for big un's

Here is the valving, on top are the rebound needles. Next are the rebound valving washers and spring washers. Then the new compression needles with new retainer pins , I will detail this change. I don't have "clickers" on my TLS so it is pretty easy to do they say. Then there is the new compression valving, very well packaged also.



Here are the springs and the Delrin spacers I will need to trim on a lathe. 1.0 kg springs.



Here is a stock rebound piston and valving note the "dish" and spring are replaced as is the valving stack.



Here is the new stack, note the spring washers, and the new spacers.



Here is the rebound piston you can see the "bleed" (yes that little notch) that I had to sand down using 320/400 grit (took about 4-5 min)



Assembled rebound piston and valving with new springs





New valving top and stock on bottom



More later, tired now.
 

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OldTLSDoug said:
Thanks Doug. I made a holder and it works good, I have the rebound pistons out and also he recommended drillling the cup for the bottoming piston to regain the travel and still have bottom out protection if you are going to wheelie. I will take pictures of all this.

I have 3 sets of cartridges to practice with and I have the rebound pistons out. I had to smooth the shaft to get the piston off, the edge just below the threads was sharp and held it up. I use the torch and it works great. I have to surface the rebound pistons so the new valving will work right. I just need to figure out where to get it done.

More to come, I am on nights so progress is slow.:banghead
To surface the rebound valve do it yourself with a piece of glass plate or granite and 400 grit wet dry sandpaper. Scribe a figure 8 pattern on the wet dry on the surface plate. I used 200 to get the notch out of the rebound side as it cuts faster then worked my way to 600 to get a smooth finish. Also I see GP has upgraded the rebound setup by supplying a bellville washer to replace the spring and cup washer, I like that setup better will need to update the race bike. The check plate is crucial to the rebound operation as there is no rebound valve control until the check plate closes.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Doug, I surfaced it on a flat metal plate using exactly that figure 8 motion, the washer is significantly stiffer than stock and the needle tapers are much different also. Do you have a picture of the tool?

Thanks
 

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Here is a pic of the tool

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/flash5/cartridgetool.jpg

pretty simple a piece of steel bored so it goes over the end of the cartridge with some holes drilled in it for a bar at one end to turn it and the other takes 4 allen screws to go in the cartridge refill ports. The tool you show in the vice looks adequate. Once you have the cartridge apart and use the normal locktite its a piece of cake to whip the cartridge apart again if you want to do a shim stack change, this is NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. Did the needles on rebound and compression on Andy's race bike so I am familiar with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yep, the only hard part is getting up the gumption to do that first set, after that, it is just cool toys and playing around! Thanks Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #15
On to the Compression Valving

A question for Doug, did you peen all the valving or use loctite? If loctite, red or blue and did you have a torque spec? Thanks

Here is the last of the guts portion of the upgrade. I installed the GP Suspension valving and pistons on the spare compression gizmos and I drilled the bottoming damper cone so I get more travel (38 mm) but shouldn't smack too bad on wheelies. I drilled a hole 1/16 in diameter 3 mm up from floor of piece, or in this case 40 mm from top, inside bottom is 43 mm.

Anyway here are some pictures. Probably done playing with these for a few days, got to go to the track tomorrow maybe..............

Stocker



GP Suspension stuff





Finally, all the modded valving parts

 

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RED LOCKTITE and 48 inch lbs of torque. That is Race Techs gold valve recommendation for the nut size so I figure that would be correct.
 

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Here is a web site with some usefull information.

Fork oil viscoscity chart where 5 weight is not nessecarily 5 weight
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/flash5/cartridgetool.jpg

How to improve stock valves
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/highspeed.htm

Interesting idea on top out springs that I am thinking of trying
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/05fork.htm

his general web site prowl the links on the left there is lots of interesting stuff here
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/index2.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Drilling the cone on top of the cartridge 3 mm up from the floor on the inside with a 1/16 in bit will fix the travel issue and allow you to still have some wheelie protection. I have played with it dry and it is a huge difference, we shall see how it works in practice. Dave at GP Suspension suggested it. He said we get back 38 mm or so of damped fork travel. I notice the compression piston I put in is very similar to the Showa piston. :coocoo Thanks for the info on torque.

Here is the mod for the bottoming piston

Pretty simple stuff, we are still learning everyday. I guess I need some tires :coocoo



 

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Discussion Starter #19
Finished

Installed everything in the TLS today. Just a note, the stock preload is about 11 mm, I have just at 12 in the new spring. I have her set at 35 mm sag. The adjusters were easy to change, but as usual one of them caused us about 30 minutes pain. Misfire was by and we knocked out the forks pretty quickly.

So, what do I think of the GP Suspension forks? Amazing difference. 1/4 tunr on the adjuster makes a difference you can feel. Rebound exists! Nice to not have the front dive hard on braking, feels like the TLR, except a little quicker turn in.

I set the oil level at 100 mm or so (I was two or three high and left it). It took 470 ml of 5 wt fork oil in each leg.

I am at 1.25 turns in on rebound and 1.5 turn in on compression and I think I will back out the compression about 1/4 turn.

Only issue is the spacer they sent is too short, so I cobbled one up to work until I get a proper one.

Pretty easy job, so I have well valved and sprung TLS forks for about $400.00 including oil. GP Suspension rocks. Misfire asked if I was gonna take pictures, I said, "Nope, too much trouble" Sorry about that, but we were making great progress.

Now if LE would send that rear spring I would be done.............for now :lol
 
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