[Jota81]

After reading of so many battery and for some the associated root problem Rectifier/Regulator ( or RR for short ) failures, it seems i have now become a "member" of this club. Not impressed at all, while the battery is the original from my bought new in mid 2000 TLR, it is damaged from undercharging rather than outright age failure. The RR outputs around 14V at idle ( the headlight is wired on all the time on the Australian version of the TLR ) falling to sub 13.8V as the motor is reved.

Being an electrical engineering person i will sort this properly, hence my post here. The RR's from Shindengen are normaly very reliable, failures would be the odd rare unit failure or the more usual incorrect application of Shindengens product, as is chronic on Honda's ie CBR600 and VTR ( the later by the way on some models use the SH579A-11 as oppossed to the SH579A-12 of the TLR 2000 ).

Is the SH579A-12 used on all year models of the TLR up to 2003? Reason i ask is that i will not use a SH579A-12 again either used or new spare as it is obviously not a correct application on the TLR. Suspect the mounting position and the hard wired headlight to allow less power dissipation internaly for the RR. Looking at Shindengen RR's of the present i see no offerings in the SH5xx series only SH6xx and the FET type FH001, the later may well be a synchronous FET rectifier and would be a real stepup towards a more robust design than the shunt SCR type as the SH579 is.

Outwardly the SH678-12 may well be a better replacement than the oem unit on the TLR, though not having seen one i cannot say for certain as yet.

The factory manual i have seems not to have the alternator output power in the Data section, anyone have a figure for the TLR?

The battery replacement seems to be restricted out here as i normaly use the very good Deka power sport batteries for all my rides, seems the special squat size format of the TLR battery is a problem in finding a Deka to suit.

Will bench test the removed RR this week, though there is little doubt in my mind the internal voltage sense phase control circuit is faulty on the RR as removed from my TLR.

Any information from other will be appreciated, likewise i will post the outcome of my solution.

 

[TLR-Billbo]

13.8VDC is just fine...I think someone said something about the way the chg sys is set up on the TLs that it doesnt go too high voltage wise. Mine is the same as yours as far as VDC goes :O my battery is fine as well.

2 thins batteries hate is heat and vibration. being next to the headpipe on the TLR gets both with one shot :lol

the US models are also wired for headlight on at all times

 

[Jota81]

Many thanks TLR-Billbo for the reply, for the modern AGM or absorbed glass mat batteries 13.8V at the battery terminals engine running above 2000rpm, is too low. Hence the different types of suffix on the SH5xx SH6xx -xx this denotes the internal threshold level of the phase control clamp ie 14.5-14.7Volts output or 15V for some watercraft and snowmobiles ie it compensates for line voltage drop in the vehicles electrical system and temperature operation.

Ok on the USA lights on all the time i did not know that, perhaps you get 13.8V at idle? If so then this is possible, however if you have that sub 14.2V at riding rpm then possibly you will become stranded like me on the open road. Mine was playing up over several months though i just put it down to lack of riding at the time.

Thanks again for the reply.

 

[BikePilot]

Mine is around 13-13.5 reved up, has been since new (well, nearly - I bought it with 1k miles on the bike). 45k miles and still on the oem bat without a problem ever!

good luck

 

[Jota81]

BikePilot, thank you for the reply. That voltage you quote is a low reading, would suspect your meter is reading low, easly checked against other voltmeters or multimeters. To others, any reading under 14.2V at the battery terminals, fully charged battery and engine rpm above 3000 means you have a possible proble now or some time soon.

Yes like you i expected a good service life from the oem battery as i take care of battery condition at service times.

Thank you again for the posted reply.

 

[TLR-Billbo]

I just put in a new battery this spring as well. from what I remember, there was a thread on running voltages here some time ago, and most people found it to be right around 13.5VDC, not the 14.2 as stated in the manual. I remember someone saying that the charging sys on the TL was not the best in the world, but it gets the job done on my bike just fine :O

 

[Jota81]

Alternator system on the TLS and TLR are just fine if all is working as it should, yours is still going, so seems to be just bike specific issues as they arise. Each rider makes his own choices and if he or she feels 13,5V is ok then that is what works for them. Not me as i used to servive battery banks up to 20Ton and know battery technology very well. Anything under 2.275 for flooded cells is a problem, AGM's run to 2.35V per cell on float and "float" without charger connected in the 12.8V range for a 6 cell battery and about 12.3-12.5V for the older flooded cells at something like 70F or 20C.

Owners only report what they find or what they understand, multimeters are not all equal and readings can vary one unit to the next, as i have good meters i also check instantaneous battery terminal voltage sag under cold cranking. Most batteries will sag to 10.5V for this test. Some will hold 11V and some will sag to sub 9V which gives rise to the dreaded "fouled" plug cold start problem i read about here from time to time, BTW i have never cold crank fouleda plug in 6 years.

Thank you for the reply TLR-Billbo
HTH

 

[raleigh5]

question: is there, or is there not, a reliable method for testing the condition of the TLR r/r? short of testing of the suspect r/r on a bike with known good charging components(wiring, connectors, etc.), i know of no other way to determine if a r/r is truly good or bad.

 

[Jota81]

Raleigh5, what you outline is the simplest way ie test on a good bike. There are bench techniques to also test the RR, basicly you need to pump an AC or DC voltage into the yellow wires, it does not matter greatly though AC is best. Connect the input voltage onto any two of the 3 yellow wires and once you reach an input voltage greater than 14.2V+1.2V internal diode drops the internal SCR clamps will fire or phase on. This puts a dead short across the input voltage so what you do is feed the input voltage via an old working car headlamp of say 55-100W.

Once the RR's output rises to 14.2V or similar the headlamp will go very bright and the RR's output will fall to a static voltage less than 14.2V. In order to test this threshold you need to vary the input voltage by either stacking 2 12V batteries in series via the headlamp or maintaing a constant above 16V input. Stacking 2 12V batteries i would use two car headlamps in series for the feed voltage. Other than that i use a 240VAC Variac to feed a 100W stepdown transformer via the headlamp and into the yellow wires i can then wind the input voltage up and down to see the RR's clamp voltage of 14.2V or erratic operation as a faulty one tries to regulate to 14.2V.

Technical i know however it can be done with a little patience and electrical equipment.

HTH