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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Dunno how to best handle this situ...


I've been working on a consulting firm for 6 years... but just got my ME degree this past may, meaning that I wasnt officially an engineer for all that time. In other words: i am currently under a Cad operator/designer salary, not engineering.


anyway, my manager quits (after working with me for 6 years) and goes to another company. His new company is trying to get me to join them. Now comes the dispute: my salary.


First they offered me $48K... I was like: WTF! I've been in the consulting business for 6 years (not to mention the other 3 years in machine design) and they dont even offer me $50K! :puke :puke :puke


So I meet with one of the principals and tell him that I want $55K to start and 3 weeks vacation (which is what I currently have).


Now the president of this company just called me offering $48K and when I said the cost for me to work for them is greater and I need more money, he says that I am currently making $45K and $48K is a nice upgrade


WTF !!!


How ****ing unprofessional is that? ****er knows my current salary, of course my former manager told him. I totally lost my element in the discussion. I have no leverage.


I am so ****ing pissed, I dont even know if I want to work there any longer. I mean, slavery is ****ing OVER... I live in ****ing CT and you can barely buy a ****ing house with $50K. Must be a joke, I didnt go to school for 5 years and got all those loans for nothing!

:argh :argh :argh
 

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...go for a 15% increase, in gov't that's the max you can get in a calander year which would be $6,750 and bring you up to = $51,750 + the three weeks of paid leave...

Good luck:thumbup
 

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How much will your additional costs be :O and how much do you dislike where you are now .....

If that negates the salary increase, then it ain't no increase is it :coocoo If they are WANTING you to move, they must realise they have to make it attractive :confused


I'd suggest what you're on, plus 10%, plus increased travel costs :dowhat :O



And whats with 3 weeks vacation :dowhat :confused do you get any other days/time off on top :O I am contracted to a 35hr, 5 day working week (though generally work 40), get 28 days paid leave, plus 8 bank holidays (paid national holidays) per year
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
bx-459 said:
...go for a 15% increase, in gov't that's the max you can get in a calander year which would be $6,750 and bring you up to = $51,750 + the three weeks of paid leave...

Good luck:thumbup

It is a different company, no links between the two companies. There shouldnt be any caps on my salary. It should be open to agreement. And I am currently UNDERpaid because I started as draftsperson and gradually got more reponsabilities to the point that currently I am the CAD manager for the firm and the fire protection/plumbing designer.


I am now looking for a official mechanical engineer position and the fair salary that I am entitled. And I do believe $55K is fair, and actually STILL low.
 

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Moose, the work schedule is way different than the US than the rest of the world. Here the norm is a 50hr week and 2-3 weeks vacation time plus some paid holidays (4th of july, christmas, memorial day, labor day etc - I get 10 a year and that's probably more than most).

BBgorges, shop around and get competing offers from other companies, then you'll have some leverage. With the CAD background and Engineering degree you should have no trouble getting offers in the 55-65k range.

good luck
 

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BBorges said:
It is a different company, no links between the two companies. There shouldnt be any caps on my salary. It should be open to agreement. And I am currently UNDERpaid ....
...and they know that so it will be how well you can sell yourself to them...

Is there much competition for that type of companies in the area your in, if so, that may give you more room to negotiate for yourself...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
tls-moose said:
How much will your additional costs be :O and how much do you dislike where you are now .....

And whats with 3 weeks vacationyear

right now I have 3 weeks vac, 10 holidays, 10 personal days. And they pay for my train ticket. So basically I have no commute costs.

Now, the other firm has no train option, meaning that I have to drive everyday, and let me tell you, I am on I-95 around NYC... so that speaks for itself (heavy traffic)


Now just adding 10% to my current salary DOES NOT apply to my current situation because I have a new degree involved and 6 years experience. If my current salary were market standard, yes, i would understand. But I am currently underpaid, and THEY know that and they are using inside info to offer a base salary.


I dunno... I really am upset with them... it is a nice firm and more growing chances and great technical staff but i wont accept anything I dont believe is fair.


I already sucked it up a LOT while going to school. No more.
 

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You like where you are? Since your Boss left ask your Bosses boss for a promotion. Tell them you have been offered 50K for firm XYZ and see if they counter offer.

Engineers with a degree get around 70K in Northern VA.

Hell I could get 55K if I live in Northern VA.

I'd look around more and decline. Unless you have an excellent relationship with your old boss. At some point might it may be hung over your head. I got you this job etc.

$45 verses 48 is not significant enought to me to leave a job I liked. In my case, I would jump quick for anything over 40K I hate my job.

Still looking.
 

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Most ME with a PE around here expect about $60-65K. Have you gotten your PE? Also, what your currant salary is should have no impact on what you ask for and what they agree to pay, only the national average should have an impact. A 10% increase is decent IF you are making a lateral move, but you now have your degree and this would not be a lateral move, so I would not do it. Also, think about this. If this new company that wants you will not pay you what is average salary for your position, then if they do agree to it, you know they will always be looking for someone to replace you for cheaper, so you just became a liability to them. I would not want to work for a company that I am a liability to.
 

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tls-moose said:
How much will your additional costs be :O and how much do you dislike where you are now .....

If that negates the salary increase, then it ain't no increase is it :coocoo If they are WANTING you to move, they must realise they have to make it attractive :confused


I'd suggest what you're on, plus 10%, plus increased travel costs :dowhat :O



And whats with 3 weeks vacation :dowhat :confused do you get any other days/time off on top :O I am contracted to a 35hr, 5 day working week (though generally work 40), get 28 days paid leave, plus 8 bank holidays (paid national holidays) per year
Damn, you guys got it easy mate. We have a whole different work ethic over here. 35hrs...that doesn't even count as full time. :laugh
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
crashtd said:
is it the exact same job as your old place? does your job actually use your ME degree? does the company you're currently at pay ME's more than non-ME's.



If i go to the new firm, then YES... i'd be exposed to the same projects I worked for the last 6 years: commercial HVAC/Plumbing/Fire Protection. Not the dream job, but it is good stuff, and unfortunately, it is the area I am in and I know what to do.


Now, since my boss left (3 weeks ago) the company has showed interest in me staying with them, but no salary discussions yet.

And the tasks are a little different: currently, I am learning Residential Energy Analysis, which is something new to me.



both jobs use my degree.... hard to tell which would be better in the future, Commercial HVAC or Energy Specialist.
 

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here's the way i see the other company seeing things...

they want you to work at their firm in the same capacity as at your old job. they DO NOT want to also give you a promotion. to them its a latteral move, where a 3k increase seems like a good incentive to them. But you want not only to move out, but also move up. You want to get the salary you should get for having your new degree, but also some $$$ to make the move worth your hassle.

and there in lies the problem.

maybe try letting the pres. of the company know this. he may not even be aware of your degree change, and even so may not think it applies to the job fully (not that those assumptions would be correct).

ultimately, you set your own worth, don't let them dictate it to you. There's nothing wrong in turning the job down.

good luck :cheers

-:banana
 

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One thing I didn't see mentioned. You've been working contract, and they've offered you a full time position? I presume you don't have medical or dental benefits now as a contractor but would in your new position, right? That's something to think about in the negotiations because those cost your employer a ton. Not saying you shouldn't get what you asked for, but that's definately an increase right there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Davcruz said:
Most ME with a PE around here expect about $60-65K. Have you gotten your PE? Also, what your currant salary is should have no impact on what you ask for and what they agree to pay, only the national average should have an impact. A 10% increase is decent IF you are making a lateral move, but you now have your degree and this would not be a lateral move, so I would not do it. Also, think about this. If this new company that wants you will not pay you what is average salary for your position, then if they do agree to it, you know they will always be looking for someone to replace you for cheaper, so you just became a liability to them. I would not want to work for a company that I am a liability to.


David, great stuff. I do not have a PE. I just got my ME, can only exam for the PE few years down the road.


Now the underlined is not completely clear. You are saying that if they accept my request, that they would eventually find someone cheaper? Can you actually find a ME Engineer for less than $55K?


Can you write more about the underlined above?

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
crashtd said:
they want you to work at their firm in the same capacity as at your old job. they DO NOT want to also give you a promotion. to them its a latteral move, where a 3k increase seems like a good incentive to them. But you want not only to move out, but also move up. You want to get the salary you should get for having your new degree, but also some $$$ to make the move worth your hassle.

and there in lies the problem.

maybe try letting the pres. of the company know this. he may not even be aware of your degree change, and even so may not think it applies to the job fully (not that those assumptions would be correct).

ultimately, you set your own worth, don't let them dictate it to you. There's nothing wrong in turning the job down.

Exactly whats happening. I like this lateral/up move terminology you guys are using.


that language will help me a lot tonite, when I have to call them back tonite. I will emphasize that I am NOT interested in a lateral move but in an official ME engineering position.


By the way, I am dealing straight with the president of the company. Actually, they are 3 principals, i've met them all, and now I am getting to the details with the main principal.


thanks bro! I need these inpts to be ready to talk to them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
gixxerjasen said:
One thing I didn't see mentioned. You've been working contract, and they've offered you a full time position? I presume you don't have medical or dental benefits now as a contractor but would in your new position, right? That's something to think about in the negotiations because those cost your employer a ton. Not saying you shouldn't get what you asked for, but that's definately an increase right there.

both are permanent full time positions with full benefits. So basically they cancel out each other, thats why I didnt even mentioned that detail.


:)
 

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i would take the fact that your dealing with the president, and not some manager as a sign they really want you. don't be afraid to ask for a lot. your worst case scenario (BATNA, best alternative to a negotiated agreement) is to go back to your current job where they are already thinking of paying you more/promoting you. I'd use that leverage as a sign that "hey, i'm a hot commodity, you want me, start acting like it" and get some sort of bidding war going on. This low balling shit would just piss me off, and that's totally what they're doing. Business owners are inherently assholes, even if they're nice folk. Look at me, i'm a totaly asshole, and i've only started studying for the GMAT. :laugh

-:banana
 

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Davcruz said:
Also, think about this. If this new company that wants you will not pay you what is average salary for your position, then if they do agree to it, you know they will always be looking for someone to replace you for cheaper, so you just became a liability to them. I would not want to work for a company that I am a liability to.
BBorges said:
Now the underlined is not completely clear. You are saying that if they accept my request, that they would eventually find someone cheaper? Can you actually find a ME Engineer for less than $55K?


Can you write more about the underlined above?

Thanks
I knew it was written poorly, but I had to zip out of my office to go pick up some CAD drawings of all things. I will try again.

If the company that you are in negotiation with currently does not act like they want to pay you what you feel you are worth, or what the national average is for the position for which you are in negotiation for (basically they are lowballing you), but they do end up reluctantly agreeing to pay you the amount you requested, then there is a possibility that they will always be looking to find someone to replace you that they feel they CAN pay the lessor amount to.

It may not happen...but don't think it doesn't. I work for a small integration company dealing within the commercial nuclear power generation industry. We (not me) go through ME's like clean socks, and we are always looking for a cheaper one...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
crashtd said:
This low balling shit would just piss me off, and that's totally what they're doing.

tell me about...

They had the balls to offer me $48K only because they knew I was at $45K. ****ers!
 
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