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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok I originally posted 2 posts this on TLplanet, but didnt get much response :) So I´ll post it all here in 1 post.
:)


Ok I got luts of stuff to share with u guys! So listen up and read
Here it comes...

DYNORUN!
THE RED line is my old TLS setup. The graph is made before I started doing new cams, new engine and bellmouths and airbox LID off (read about lid off later!). So this graph is like 1 yeah old.
My bike is a 97 with original engine
- standard cams
- full akrapovic
- airboxmod
- KN
- Powercommander 2 custom remap

GREEN is a TLR 99
- Joe V airbox mod
- akrapovic exhaust system
- and Teka remap

YELLOW is a SV1000 04
- pipercross
- slipons
- pc3 remap 1 map to both cyllinders

BLUE is a TLS 1998
- standard airbox with KN
- Slipons
- TEKA remap

The meassuremens are done on a FACTORY ec 997a. It makes low measurements compared to other dynos! But the measurements are compareable because they are made on the same dyno!

Anyway here are the graph! Thats pretty exciting :)





BUT it is getting more exciting! Much more, so stick up.

I got my TL1000S dynoet last week with a map for each cyllinder!
The new Dynorun is done beacuse I have got a new TL setup
And it gave ALOT more power!
I havent got the dynerun graphs yet, but I´ll get them next week so U can see them too. ill post them as soon as I have them. But Ill make a summary to you all.

Anyway here is my bike as it stands today:
http://www.motorcykelgalleri.dk/html/gal_visbil.asp?ID=2250

Here are pics from the PC3 mapping
http://www.motorcykelgalleri.dk/html/alb_vis.asp?AlbumID=165

And here are som facts before I get going!
1.
the standard pc3 usb for the TL1000S is NOT capable of doing a map for each cyllinder! My Dynojet guy had to take it to dynojet engineers for new software for the pc3 before is was possible! So all the pc3´s that has been sold does do not have the feature to make a map for each cyllinder! So it has to go back to dynojet for reprograming
NO matter if u have a moddet TL or not, a The PC3 with a custom handmade map to each cyllinder will make U engine take RPM much faster and make engine feel much more smooth! So go for it!
The Ignition advancer to the SV1000 also fits the TL1000S :) But it also needs to be custom mapped! Ill get that done next yeah in march :)


2.
We ran my TL1000 that has airbox mod! I have removed the flapper and opened the small hole as much as possible! That gives good power and is the normal airboxmod for the TL1000! Well I got news for you!! :) :)
We tried to take the airbox lid of the bike. Then compared the run where airbox was without lid with a run where the lid was on. So with airboxmod and then the lid off I got 2HP more from 1200rpm to 10500rpm! Thats pretty nice! I have heard people say "I wouldt do that, the ramair goes away with LID off". Well The ramair on the TLS are an early generation. Its leaking air and the placement of the ramair intake isnt good! The best thing about it is the cold air that engine is getting! Maybe the ramair gain 1-3HP at high speed MAYBE! So why not get 2 HP fra bottom to topend in all gears :)
So I am now making a LID that is a filter, so air can come trough the filter! and shielding around the whole airbox so hot air from engine wont be sucked into the airbox .
I will post the graph from the run with and without airbox lid as soon as I have the pictures (ill get them in an email in a couple of days). Then U can see the difference. 2HP more all the way without the lid :)
Btw...The sound is fantastic without the lid

3.
On the dynojet 250i that the map is made on, a standard TLS has about 108Bhp/85Nm. A TLR about 115Bhp/85Nm. I say this so U can compare the runnumbers I give u later in this thread. I got my TL testet with old setup and new setup soI could see the difference!
With standard TLS cams, with airboxmod, KN, bellmouths (original size) and complete akrapovic. It made 118 Bhp/101Nm! Thats more than most of TLR he has done on his dynojet, and alot more than all the other TLS he has done.
Remember that theese numbers are from dynojet 250i and not the factory! So they are not comparable with the SV TLR TLS U see first in this thread!

Anyway the map I got yesterday was with the new setup
New setup is engine from a TLS 01, a pc3 usb with custum map for each cyllinder, IN cams from a TLR, EX cams is old TLS IN cams repressed to EX (Thx Bernhard), and 1,5cm bellmouths from TLR in airbox, Airbox LID off (read about this later ITS A MUST), full akrapovic and KN.


The dynorun said 115BHP and 105Nm, and that was with an engine that has been driven WAY TO FAT in fuel! So I think the last 2-3HP will be there when engine is driven "clean"
BUT! When I look at the area from 2000-9000RPM it now has 3-7HP more in the whole area! So the 3BHP that I lost in the topend (from 10000-10500rpm) Are now alot more BHP in 2000-9000rpm unlees I gain the last 3 on top when engine is clean/blown out :)

With the new cams 75Nm at 2500rpm, 106Nm at 7000rpm.
With old cams it had 70Nm at 2500rpm, 101NM at 7000rpm!

With the new cams 102BHP at 7000rpm
With old cams it had 97BHP at 7000rpm

This is the numbers that i remember! Ill post the dynographs where the run with old cams and new cams is compared as soon as I have them on email Then U can compare by uself I will also get dynograph where my run is compared to TLR, TLS and SV. Then U can se the difference with this modifications compared to the other V2 bikes.

I know the numbers are small and lots of people are having dynographs on 125BHP! But there is a big difference on the dynoes. So U have to remember that on this dyno a TLR with full exhaust and open airbox has about 92BHP at 7000rpm 118BHP on top!

So I am a very happy man :) :)


The conclusion is:
TLR IN cams and old TLS IN repressed to EX, full akrapovic, airbox with flapper removed, bigger hole and airboxlid off, KN, bellmouths and a PC3 thats custom mapped on each cyllinder will turn U TLR into a TORQUE monster with LOTS of power in the area 2000-9000rpm!

With my dryweight down on 170kg and lightweight PVM wheels its a real monster to drive!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah its the cams, injectors and higher compression that gives the last HP to the TLR. But look at My TLS it has alot more power at a specific rpm number compared to TLR! Thats just complete akrapovic, airbox MOD, bellmouths and custom map in powercommander. So its aesy to gain more lowend power on a TLS

I Wonder how my bike will act with TLR injectors and 11,7 Compression and the new setup :) :devious :) :)
 

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Thanks for posting that. I really didn't do anything but look at the first dyno shot with the bike comparison. I've always heard about the SV's being lower in HP but have always wondered how they compare in the real world road useage section of the curve. Nice to see it's on par with the TL's even if it tapers off at the top end.

Seems like they would respond well to some mods.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
the SV need better flow in the tops! :) thats the main reason for the powerlack!

Do the SV have same cams as TLS?!?!
 

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Nice read, I have to ask your setup is a TLS with TLR intake cams and TLS intake cams with repressed what ??? gears??? for the exhaust, TLR bellmouths and custom air box lid box lid.

Thanks

Jim
 

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I cant help thinking that if you need different maps for each cylinder it just means they are not adjusted correctly. At least thats what it was on mine. hmmm And mine pulled 5 more hp without the lid on so im with you on that mod. Good stuff!
 

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Individual mapping is mostly a convenient way to compensate for things like mismatched injectors. Send a collection of injectors to RC Engineering and let 'em match up the two best and you probably won't need individual maps anymore. But it's common for injector flow to vary by a few percent, and if the two are within spec but at opposite ends of the tolerance then a single map won't apply very well. Sometimes when one fouls or bogs or seems different than the other it might pay off to just switch your two injectors. Supposedly my bike had its injectors precision-matched, but the seller lied about most everything on that bike, so there's no telling...
 

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So it sure seems to me that the '97 intake ports make a huge difference.

I'm surprised the TLS intake cams as exhaust cams fattened the low end! I guess the stock exhaust cam timing must be set up to reduce emissions? And why would they hurt the top end if they're properly degreed in. If it's due to more overlap reducing the dynamic compression, would that problem show up more at low RPM or high RPM? I'd have expected the longer exhaust duration to pay off at the top end if properly timed.
 

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It's always interesting to compare bikes on the same dyno :thumbup

I think the torque curve difference between the 98 TLS and the 97 TLS is quite remarkable. The 97 has a jump at 6500 to 8500, the 98 doesn't have this nearly as extreme.
BUT I don't think this is only because of the different 97 heads.

My TLS (98 as well) had a very flat torque curve, much flatter than the blue curve shown here. When I changed the ECU to a US 97/98 type (02F41), the torque curve changed about to the 97 shape (red curve here), but not as extreme in numbers (the jump shown here is rather extreme, 10Nm).

Greetings
Rufer
 

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Are the bellmouths shortended? When not, even when, the top end could be influenced by the longer throttle bodies. A run without the bellmouths would be VERY interesting. Though a very very nice bike, and a cool writeup !
 

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Rufer,
In your post you said you had changed your ECU to one with 0F421 as the last part of the serial number (97-98). Is that a re-called one? If it's a recalled one (which it sounds like), was there a difference between yours and the later standard ECU's? I'm wondering why yours gave a figure different from the later standard ECU's
 

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The rpm shown is those dyno runs is a question for me. I have never seen a TL make power past 10k rpm and have never seen a ECU that would allow more that 10,350 rpm. Whats up with that?
 

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dogsoup said:
Rufer,
In your post you said you had changed your ECU to one with 0F421 as the last part of the serial number (97-98). Is that a re-called one? If it's a recalled one (which it sounds like), was there a difference between yours and the later standard ECU's? I'm wondering why yours gave a figure different from the later standard ECU's
Yes, correct, the 02F41 is the recalled unit, not the original 97 ECU.
The difference between the 02F41 and the (Swiss) 02FK0 I had is a very different base map. This is probably because of emission regulations. I never managed to map a 02FK0 properly with aftermarket exhaust. And it was down on power about 5 to 10 hp.

Greetings
Rufer
 

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Discussion Starter #18
cyclecamper said:
Individual mapping is mostly a convenient way to compensate for things like mismatched injectors. Send a collection of injectors to RC Engineering and let 'em match up the two best and you probably won't need individual maps anymore. But it's common for injector flow to vary by a few percent, and if the two are within spec but at opposite ends of the tolerance then a single map won't apply very well. Sometimes when one fouls or bogs or seems different than the other it might pay off to just switch your two injectors. Supposedly my bike had its injectors precision-matched, but the seller lied about most everything on that bike, so there's no telling...
I do not agree!
the different length on headers and the heat diffenrece on front and rear cyllinder has alot to say.

U can se emy map, in some areas the difference between the maps are like 30% fuel between each cyllinder1 That has nothing to do with my injectors :)

Anyway a map to each cyllinder gives are much more smooth engine compared to same custom map to both cyllinders!

I´ve tried it all many times :) Ive spend much money on my bike and have tried like 20 Adjustments with both teka, yoshi box powercommander 2, powercommander 3 at a proff that spends alot of time each time he adjusts! I can only say, go for the the custom map for each cyllinder!

Next project is a custom map to the ignition advancer. the SV ignition advancer fits on the TLS :)


well can sse lots of U say ?? to an adjustment with powercommander! Well go for it!
U can all come try my bike and feel it for U self :) I have had like 8-9 LTLS owners to drive my bike. They were ALL WOOOOW about the engine smoothnes, the power, the response and the very steady engine (when driving)! They all had TEKA´et (Teka suxx, doesnt allow a custommap, only give more or less fuel on existing map) ECU´s and 2 of them had and powercomander 2 with a map from the internet (SUXX, U have to get a custom map)!

About the different ecu´s that have been made. If u get a custommade map it doenst matter what ECU u have! :)
 

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I'm surprised the separate mapping makes that much difference. I'd have expected Suzuki & Denso to have gotten most of those header differences engineered into the stock ECU's maps.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
cyclecamper said:
I'm surprised the separate mapping makes that much difference. I'd have expected Suzuki & Denso to have gotten most of those header differences engineered into the stock ECU's maps.
well I have done lots of engine mods too! Thats the main reason for the powerdifference! The diagram that I have posted above! Thats a m ap done with a powercommander 2 and same map to each cyllinder!

Like I said. the induvidual mapping on each cyllinder gives a much more smooth engine and lots of other goodies :) It doens give alot more power compared to a powercommander 2 map (1 map for both cyllinders), but a better running engine and with more energy!

Ill get the new dynorun graphs tomorrow, the run is with new cams and mapping with pc3 (2 maps, one for each cyllinder). The cams gave me alot more power:)
 
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