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yeah, but its all in german.

i even have a hard time undertstanding it, and i have taken many mnay years of german, and even was a foreign exchange student to germany in HS...



but, tlrj. if you make it like the uno, but at a better price, you will have many orders...
 

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Discussion Starter #25
kevh said:

Yup, this is basically what I'm looking at doing. I could do the CNC pivot as well--but not really what I had in mind.





Joe--post some better pics of that sweet ride of yours:hail
 

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Rupes said:
Just a bare frame in large diameter alloy tubing I'm guessing around $3000-$3500 US :O Cheaper in steel I'd imagine.
I am actually researching the prices of material at this moment. (Ulitmate Go-Kart) I cannot find any Cho-moly with similar strengths close to the price of AL. The best I could do was matching some Chro-moly with .065" wall thickness compared to 6061 T-6 AL with .125 wall thickness, the AL cost roughly half the Chro-moly. I know there is a strength difference, but if I knocked the wall thickness down on the Chro-moly to match the AL price it would not have the required strength. Plus AL is a lot easier to work with in my book.
 

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yeller_twin said:
I am ............... in my book.
Tube rigidity,ductility and yield will determine the tube and wall thickness......4130 has a higher ridgitity compared to most carbon tubes,so the wall thickness can be reduced in some cases with an increase in OD ....... It is far easier in a Street frame to use a good grade Seamless carbon tube of around 1 1/8 in or bigger and .060 wall,easy to weld,less drama with heat affected joint's etc etc...i believe Spondon etc use an Alloy in the 7000 series,that has bonus properties regarding post heat welding stress's .. Alloy allows bigger sections but the weight saving is minimal compared to steel(by weight),you could do the same section at a much thinner wall that would match the alloy but would crack..catch 22.....that was the thinking behind the first YZR 500's and their prototype Deltabox's,same weight as steel but bigger sections for a more ridgit platform...fwiwimho :D
 

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Yeah, I know all about material sciences, stupid materials tesing is a class I am not enjoying right now. :banghead But, .060 carbon steel and moly will weigh more than .125 6061. I've weighed them. 6061 is pretty brittle, but if you have enough support then it's not an issue. Since bikes have suspension, the frame does not see too much dynamic (shock) loading. I loaded a piece of 6061 T-6 .125 wall in our Universal Testing Machine and it held a 2400 lb load over a 10.5" distance with only .060" deflection. Basically that is not very much deflection and it held the load well.

In our Charpy impact tester, the AL only absorbed around 20 lb-ft while the low carbon steel absorbed around 60 lb-ft. Definately more brittle, but so is Ti.

Under Static load, 6061 is like taffy and streches bad. I think this specimen was around 68% elongation and 40% area reduction.




It's all about compromise. AL is cheaper right now, and my wallet says that's a no brainer. And much easier to work with.

One more thing, 7000 series AL is not considered weldable. 2000 series AL is "Aircraft" and not really welded, more bolting and fastening.
 

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yeller_twin said:
Yeah, I know all about material sciences. ....

One more thing, 7000 series AL is not considered weldable. 2000 series AL is "Aircraft" and not really welded, more bolting and fastening.
:confused Science has nothing to do with the real world , Diameter x Wall thickness :O .........Both Spondon and JMC use 7020 the strongest weldable aluminium available not to be confused with Tooling plate..and once again Post weld heat affected joint's..6061 has some good properties,but mainly mechanical by state ......... i broke my own rule again about staying out of these threads :lol
 

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Mine...

Here's mine... it was my seinor project for my ME degree. I ran out of time to do any nice machining so it's not as pretty as it could be...
-Joshua
 

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TLDV8 said:
:confused Science has nothing to do with the real world , Diameter x Wall thickness :O .........Both Spondon and JMC use 7020 the strongest weldable aluminium available not to be confused with Tooling plate..and once again Post weld heat affected joint's..6061 has some good properties,but mainly mechanical by state ......... i broke my own rule again about staying out of these threads :lol
Science has a lot to do with real world. :rant Okay I will admit that I never listen to what the books say. But this time I actually tested out my material since the machines were avaliable. Tubing shape has a large affect on rigidity too. But I don't feel like looking in my book for that crap, call me lazy. After further review, maybe 7000 series can be welded, it's just 2000 that cannot, oppps. Your a welder by trade (right?) and you have much more experience than me, so I will leave it at that. I was just a passing on what I have found and know.

jbirkle- Nice frame. How much time do you have in that? What material? And what's it for? Use a jig to square everything up? Questions questions questions, I know.
 

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As I recall it was 2 semesters...! It's chromoly front, 7075 plates. It was built for an FZ750 motor, the geometry ended up pretty close to an R6... I used a bunch of big dynamics equations, that I don't remember anymore :confused , to come up with the overally geometry and COG. Then a bunch of FEA to optomise the design and in the end CAM software to machine the plates. The project was supposed to be sort of an exercise in using a bunch of eng. software. Oh, as far as the front was concerned, yeah a pretty intricate jig was buillt to keep it straight, but it still had to be straightened after full weld and powdercoat.
Any more Q's?

Thasnk for the comments!
-Joshua

jbirkle- Nice frame. How much time do you have in that? What material? And what's it for? Use a jig to square everything up? Questions questions questions, I know. [/B]
:confused
 

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Just a thought for the money spent and weight reduction achieved I would consentrate on a lighter swingarm and leave the frame alone. You can ditch a fair bit of weight from the bike with an updated shock setup in fact if you want to go nuts Renton coil spring has titanium coil springs available along with the Showa conversion a gold valve and if you want to go all out Hypercoil has hydraulic spring perch, that will give you an awsome shock setup. As to the swingarm JMC in the UK make a significantly lighter swingarm then you can grind all the excess brackets off the frame from the shock conversion and you dont have to worry about trying to title a custom frame. Spend the money you have saved on Carbon fibre body work lighter wheels and voila a light weight TLR.
 
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But what if you've already done all that :D

Your right about the JMC too, it uses a solid half inch thick axle and aluminium sleeves. I had mine made with bottom bracing. Complete with the extra bracing, brackets, axle, bearings etc its still lighter than the TLS non braced, completely stripped of everything swingarm that it replaced.

Title the frame?? Over hear the frame needs a number stamped on the headstock and a compliance plate riveted to the frame. If I ever did it I'd just stamp the new frame with the same number and attach the compliance plate and just store the old frame :O
 

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Rupes said:
But what if you've already done all that :D

Your right about the JMC too, it uses a solid half inch thick axle and aluminium sleeves. I had mine made with bottom bracing. Complete with the extra bracing, brackets, axle, bearings etc its still lighter than the TLS non braced, completely stripped of everything swingarm that it replaced.

Title the frame?? Over hear the frame needs a number stamped on the headstock and a compliance plate riveted to the frame. If I ever did it I'd just stamp the new frame with the same number and attach the compliance plate and just store the old frame :O
EXACTLY how I'm gonna get my RGV on the street. :devious
 
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How about Carbon?

Just a cool $12,500 and this could be yours! :thumbup



Too bad it's for a ducati... :rant
 
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