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I have read similar issues concerning this event, but I wanted to create this new thread in the event that someone has advice beyond the usual (and probably sufficient) "check your connections" theory.

The summary:

1997 TL1000s. Kept in great condition with all proper recall-mods installed and great maintenance (new clutch cover, new fuel pump etc etc). Rebuilt motor (starved output bearing of oil fro wheelies), new clutch and pump about 2000 miles ago.

I had been driving pretty hard (some power wheelies in there too), and everything seemed normal. Engine temp=190F. No signal of malfunction on display. Oil and fluids all up to spec. I stopped to fill up gas and then started down the road. With the clutch pulled in, I revved the motor to just under 9000rpms (which I have done before without a problem), then after about 2 seconds, the engine shut off and the gauges/lights all went blank/off. I coasted, pulled over, sat with the bike and started checking things under the seat. With the key turned to ON, nothing happened. No lights or anything (like the battery was completely fried). After about 5 minutes, the power came back and I could start the motor. The motor and electric shut down again several minutes later while gently accelerating.

After letting the bike sit and cool down for about an hour, I took it out again to see what would happen. Everything seemed fine, so I thought maybe it was a fluke (stupid I know). I popped in to grab a juice from a liquor store, and when I tried starting the engine, it would stall after starting repeatedly. Once it finally started, the engine/electric all went out again when I tried accelerating from a traffic light. I kept starting the bike, only to have it cut-off the motor/electrical when I tried accelerating. This happened several times before it stayed on and got me home.

WTF?! I'm worried that the high revving had some part to play in this mess, but I know that these motors are pretty hard to damage if kept within proper operating limits. Is this most likely some electrical short? fuse? corrosion? or something way more insidious?

thanks. help me please. i love this machine.
 

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It maybe trying to tell you something like, "Please stop thrashing my nuts off!". :laugh

Sounds electrical alright. Start with the simple stuff like main battery connections, fuses, the 4-way block for the starter, earths and so on.
Work your way through all the connectors but since you are losing all electrics concentrate on the primary common connection points.
Probably want to tlook at the connectors for the ignition switch itself too.

You may also want to try a battery swap. Unless your wheelie skills are finely honed and you let the front down as gently as a lover's kiss then you may have just bashed the thing into partial failure.

Happy hunting.
 

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I'm right there with you musashisan. Your symptoms seem identical to mine, and I've read well on the issue. For all you amazing tech's out there that help out guys like us, I'd first like to thank you for your help.

So here goes my diagnosis so far (since my bike died the minute I had to commute 130 miles away for the week, thus having cancel repairs and take my car):

It appears that we have the typical symptoms of the failed starter relay harness. My first check was at the ignition: checked the parking light position with the key to ensure that there is not a fault at this point. Can anyone comment on how this my not be thorough enough of a check?

After the parking light illuminated I returned the key back to the on position where the bike remains dead electric. Getting to the starter relay harness above the battery, I gave the wires there a good wiggle to see if any response. Nothing. Then I checked voltage and resistances as I've seen some posts discuss good/bad values for the relay. The 30A fuse and battery leads check out well with good voltage and continuity. Then I checked the resistances on the relay itself. The two male connectors on towards the front of the bike hovered between 0.3 and 0.5 ohms, while the two towards the rear were up in the high 200's. Can't remember if that was good or not.

So that's it. I haven't figured out whether or not the relay is junk, or had a clear view to see if there was corrosion or bad connection on the 4-wire harness (I did all this in the dark with a maglight), but am looking forward if anyone can weigh in on what I've done so far so we can move this post forward. Thanks!
 

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this happened on mine, does turning the bars lock to lock cause or help the problem? the big connecter under the right side fairing had a crappy connection, actually it was splinted with a matchstick! :laugh
 

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A match stick? That's outrageous!

They could have at least used a paperclip. :laugh
 

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.....
Sounds electrical alright. Start with the simple stuff like main battery connections, fuses, the 4-way block for the starter, earths and so on.
Work your way through all the connectors but since you are losing all electrics concentrate on the primary common connection points.
Probably want to tlook at the connectors for the ignition switch itself too.

......

:stupid



......

1997 TL1000s. Kept in great condition with all proper recall-mods installed and great maintenance (new clutch cover, new fuel pump etc etc). .....

.......I revved the motor to just under 9000rpms (which I have done before without a problem), then after about 2 seconds, the engine shut off and the gauges/lights all went blank/off. I coasted, pulled over, sat with the bike and started checking things under the seat. With the key turned to ON, nothing happened. No lights or anything (like the battery was completely fried). After about 5 minutes, the power came back and I could start the motor. The motor and electric shut down again several minutes later while gently accelerating.

.....when I tried starting the engine, it would stall after starting repeatedly. Once it finally started, the engine/electric all went out again when I tried accelerating from a traffic light. I kept starting the bike, only to have it cut-off the motor/electrical when I tried accelerating. This happened several times before it stayed on and got me home.

.......
Musashisan, the symptoms you describe sound exactly like a failed starter relay connector. The fact that ALL Power cuts off narrows the problem down to the primary incoming power components and associated wires.
  • The battery (and/or cables)
  • The starter relay connector
  • The ignition switch
  • The main loom ground wire

The most likely of these is the starter relay connector. Either the terminals themselves have failed, or the RED wire has over heated to the point where it is intermittent. The wire insulation will usually be brown near the connector due to the heat.

The power comes back on after things cool down because the materials relax and the heat-induced resistance returns to a "normal" range.

Does your TLS have the Charging Mod and Headlight Relay Mod installed?



....

It appears that we have the typical symptoms of the failed starter relay harness. My first check was at the ignition: checked the parking light position with the key to ensure that there is not a fault at this point. Can anyone comment on how this my not be thorough enough of a check?

After the parking light illuminated I returned the key back to the on position where the bike remains dead electric. Getting to the starter relay harness above the battery, I gave the wires there a good wiggle to see if any response. Nothing. Then I checked voltage and resistances as I've seen some posts discuss good/bad values for the relay. The 30A fuse and battery leads check out well with good voltage and continuity.
Tremontem, you are correct in that your symptoms are very similar to Musashisan's. However, the fact that your parking light illuminated, and yet the "ON" position was still dead, tells me that your problem centers around the ignition switch. It is not uncommon for the wires coming out of the switch to fracture, or for the solder connections on the switch plate itself to fail (inside the switch housing).

The condition can be verified by disconnecting the Green gang connector, and the using an ohm meter to verify the switch connections as you move the key to its different positions.

The switch connections should be as follows:

OFF - No continuity between any of the six wires.

ON - Measure between these wire pairs.
Red & Orange wires - zero ohms
Gray & Brown wires - zero ohms
Orange/Yellow & Black/White wires - should measure 100 ohms.

LOCK - No continuity between any of the six wires.

PARK - Red & Brown wires - zero ohms



Then I checked the resistances on the relay itself. The two male connectors on towards the front of the bike hovered between 0.3 and 0.5 ohms, while the two towards the rear were up in the high 200's. Can't remember if that was good or not.

......!
The resistance on the rear relay pins isn't correct, but don't be too concerned about this. Since the engine does crank over, the relay is likely OK. Possibly you didn't have a good connection with the probe when you measured the ~200 ohms. :O

The front pair of pins should be zero ohms, so 0.5 is good. If you look into the relay housing you'll see that those two pins are actually ONE terminal. This is the power feed to the RED wire and Red/White wire.

The rear pair of pins should be about 5 ohms. This is the resistance of the relay coil.


Let us know what you find.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
@ Six5,

Thanks a lot! I appreciate such an in-depth response (even to other complaints beyond mine). I pulled all the fairings off and the rear plastics, checked all the connections and tested the battery. Battery was fine. Fuses all sound. The starter relay connector wires seemed a little discolored, so I think you're right about the heat. As a funny coincidence, my power tools kept tripping the surge protector today while roofing. I realized that the heat was ****ing with the wire's ability to carry current. I think that this is a direct analogy to the problem I was having, since I was riding during the hottest time of the day and driving really hard with several long periods of being forced to stop, bringing the engine temp up to about 215 at some points.

Despite all this, I was doing a visual check of the sensors around the airbox as well and noticed that the VCSV lower vacuum tube had slipped off at some point. Wondering if this somehow contributed. I took it for a test drive today and everything seemed fine. Although I drove it while the ambient temperature was not nearly as hot as yesterday. Either way, I am going to take one more look at the relay as per your advice.

Thanks again! Such a great response--this site is awesome. oh and yes, the charging mod and headlight relay mod are there. protecting the battery.
 

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Failed connection

Checked everything we were talking about and it all passed. Went into the wiring harnesses nested in under the headlights. Found my problem!! The 20 pin connector (Ecu?) has an orange lead connecting to black/purple that has melted and failed. Wiggled this and the fuel pump cycled like a remix turntable. Looks like a dirty connection too, so ill start with a clean and dielectric treatment. I'll upload photos when I can!
 

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@ Six5,

Thanks a lot! I appreciate such an in-depth response ....
I took it for a test drive today and everything seemed fine. .....
:thumbup



...... Found my problem!! The 20 pin connector (Ecu?) has an orange lead connecting to black/purple that has melted and failed. ......!
What ever you do to repair this connection, make sure it is reliable and solid. Unless certain modifications have been made, this circuit carries practically all the system current when the bike is in operation - ECM, ignition, & lights. :)
 

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Hello guys, I seem to be having similar problems with my tl.
i’pl give an in-depth description of what happens as there are differences.
So, starting the bike is usually fine, fires up nicely and if I ride like a grandad, it rides fine. But as soon as I apply more than a quarter throttle the electrics shut off, not completely, but as if the kill switch has been hit.
after a few seconds it gets a solid CHEC reading on the LED display with no check code or additional lights coming on. Then after maybe 20 seconds to as long as 5 mins sometimes the dash resets, fuel pump re primes and she’s good to go like a grandad again.
It also cuts off like the kill switch if I hit a particularly hard bump, but that’s not the side stand switch, as that was my first thought to check..
Any ideas what this could be?? As I’m lost as to what to look for. Fuses are fine, battery connections are also fine and tight..
any help will be greatly appreciated..
 

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Welcome to the forum Ben!

...... But as soon as I apply more than a quarter throttle the electrics shut off, not completely, but as if the kill switch has been hit.
after a few seconds it gets a solid CHEC reading on the LED display with no check code or additional lights coming on. Then after maybe 20 seconds to as long as 5 mins sometimes the dash resets, fuel pump re primes and she’s good to go like a grandad again.
It also cuts off like the kill switch if I hit a particularly hard bump, but that’s not the side stand switch, as that was my first thought to check..
......
Why do you say the problem is not the side stand switch?
Because everything you described points to the side stand interlock circuit. If it's not the switch itself, then I would suspect an intermittent connection elsewhere in the circuit. Maybe a corroded terminal. Maybe the side stand relay itself is weak, or provides a poor connection.

When that interlock circuit activates (SS relay opens), it kills power to the ignition circuit, ECM, fuel pump, and injectors. However, the lighting system stays on. The display of "CHEC" in the LCD window is an automatic response when then ECM loses power.

The increased engine vibration at higher RPMs, and the vibration from large bumps is what's causing that circuit to activate. Now it's just a matter of determining which component is failing, or where the faulty connection is. Investing in a multimeter and some time to inspect the connections should reveal what is going on.

Is this a TLS or TLR?

Have a closer look at the side stand interlock circuit and let us know what you find please.
 

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Welcome to the forum Ben!



Why do you say the problem is not the side stand switch?
Because everything you described points to the side stand interlock circuit. If it's not the switch itself, then I would suspect an intermittent connection elsewhere in the circuit. Maybe a corroded terminal. Maybe the side stand relay itself is weak, or provides a poor connection.

When that interlock circuit activates (SS relay opens), it kills power to the ignition circuit, ECM, fuel pump, and injectors. However, the lighting system stays on. The display of "CHEC" in the LCD window is an automatic response when then ECM loses power.

The increased engine vibration at higher RPMs, and the vibration from large bumps is what's causing that circuit to activate. Now it's just a matter of determining which component is failing, or where the faulty connection is. Investing in a multimeter and some time to inspect the connections should reveal what is going on.

Is this a TLS or TLR?

Have a closer look at the side stand interlock circuit and let us know what you find please.
hello, ok I will give the side stand another look over.. I have noticed the side stand on the bike (97 tls) fits very tightly to the exhaust when folded up, to the point the foot grip on the side stand is against the exhaust in a way you cannot reach when foldedup. I don’t know if this is normal.
I have cleaned the switch itself, but that didn’t appear to help at all.
incase the switch is not engaging properly, would you recommend zip tying the switch closed be a good idea to test the connection? I have a multimeter, so will go over it on my next day off.. besides the switch itself, could you point me to where else to test with the meter?
 

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.... the side stand on the bike (97 tls) fits very tightly to the exhaust when folded up, to the point the foot grip on the side stand is against the exhaust in a way you cannot reach when foldedup. .....
incase the switch is not engaging properly, would you recommend zip tying the switch closed be a good idea to test the connection? ......

Your description of the side stand position is not normal. However, you may have a UK or Euro version. The heel tang on the US version should protrude well beyond the exhaust pipe and be easily reached with your heel. Other versions may not be so accessible - IDK.

At any rate, problems with the side stand interlock circuit are usually centered around the side stand or the switch itself. The switch is poorly designed and often gets contaminated with chain lube and road grime. Rather than try to zip tie it in the compressed state, a more reliable test would be to bypass the switch entirely. In other words, disconnect it from the loom, and replace it with a jumper wire so that the system thinks the side stand is up all the time. Then go for a test ride to see if you can recreate the electrical problem.

Does the system still cut out above 4000 RPM or over large bumps?
If it does, we can look further at other parts of the circuit.
 
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