TLZone Forums banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
98 TL1000R about 35,000. Don't know the history of the bike. Since I bought her there have been some obvious issues I am still trying to work through. We will start from startup. First the loud snap style back fire right at start up. Only 1 and she is off. I can't seem to find the right spot for the idle. It's either just a little to high (about 2000rpm)or she stalls out. I am also getting backfiring from the exhaust with a nice little pyro technic show for the other drivers. And every now and then, when I'm able to hold her steady at a speed there is a single backfire through the tb. Now that one feels like you running out of gas. Just one ",,,fump,,," split second lose of power and ready to go. I've had it happen at a light and on the highway. Also she is extremely difficult to keep at any one speed. I'm not sure how to explain what is going on but I will try. I'll be going then all of sudden it seems like I just let go of the throttle. Engine breaking but with a minor minor twist of the throttle she seems okay but because of this I can't keep a steady speed. Sometime you could almost mistake it for low fuel except with low fuel it feels different. There also the matter of the juttering. Again while trying to hold a steady speed she jutters pretty good back forth. Have to let off throttle and then back on and she seems okay. It could be from being in to low of a gear but 55mph in 4th seems okay with me. Either that or its 55mph in 3rd at 5000 or 6000 RPM.
RECAP
1. SNAP BACKFIRE AT STARTUP
2. FLUCTUATING IDLE
3. BACKFIRE FROM EXHAUST WITH FLAME
4. BACKFIRE THROUGH TB.
5. KEEPING AT SPEED
6. JUTTERS
Thank you all for your input. Just so everyone knows I am leaning towards a bad fuel pump and a charging system on it way to failing. The head light dims and brightens. Throttle and speed have no effect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
One last thing. Was noticed just yesterday. My buddy was riding behind me and said that my bike smokes black smoke and lets out a pretty good cloud at take off. Referenced a diesel engine. But it does stop after awhile. Last thing. Took her on the highway last night. Got her up to around 120mph and she feels stable, nothing cutting and out but there is a vibration which I believe is just the timing chain. It's a Suzuki.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
516 Posts
The more learned on here will be of more help than me. However, black smoke indicates the bike is running rich, generally. Does it have some type of tuning device on it, like a Dynojet box or similar? Sounds like you might want to take a look at all your vacuum lines to see if there might be some cracks in them. It's a free easy thing to start with too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
That was my plan for today. Nothing hooked up or anything like that. She has always seemed to run rich. Right now I am running E3 spark plugs and have been told by pretty much everyone that they are the best spark plugs. After looking through the service manual I see that they actually suggest 3 different Sparks plugs. Run it to temp, pull the plugs and if it black use hotter plugs, if it's clean use standard plug and if its glazed looking use a colder one. Those E3 are coming out pretty black so I'm considering running a hotter plugs. Not sure exactly what they mean but a hotter plug but maybe, and someone please let me know if im wrong, it will be easier for the plug to ignite the gas. Maybe the plug isn't able to ignite the gas at the right time because it's a colder plug. That's why I'm getting backfiring and speed surging.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,146 Posts
Get a light into the cylinders and look for carbon buildup.
+1 👍
You will probably also find carbon buildup on the backside of the intake valves. You will be able to see it through the throttle body.

If it is blowing black smoke, and the plugs are black, it is running rich, just as Ricky noted. Most likely, someone in the past made some fueling adjustments with a Yosh Box, or something similar, and they didn't get the idle mix quite right. Actually, the fuel table for most of the RPM range may be messed up, based on your description of the way it runs. It would be worth your time to find someone with a Yosh box and zero out the ECM fuel maps. That way you have a good Baseline to start from.

As for the E3 spark plugs, I disagree. The OEM NGK recommended plugs have a proven history - going on two decades now. The TL engine works well with them, and they have good reliability when the other engine parameters are in spec. Also, I wouldn't recommend changing the spark plug heat ratings until you get the fuel maps figured out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Carbon buildup already noticed. This picture will say it all. I have the service manual and the parts manual for the TL1000R. The parts manual is awesome because it is an exploded view of every single part and where it connects. I wish every bike had such detailed manuals. Using those I went through the entire vacuum system and found no brakes in the lines what so ever and everything is hooked up correctly. I do have a new fuel pump assembly on the way. It's a replacement kit but I was very careful in making sure that it was an OEM replace for my bike. I do need to get a new battery and I'm going tomorrow to try to find those hotter plugs in hopes that it will help some of the issues I'm having. I have also noticed that I hear the timing chain so I will also be DIYing a manual timing chain tensioner. I did one on my CBR600F3 that seemed to work really well. Never had an issue after that. I'm trying to avoid having to do the timing because the she has 35,000 miles on her which means timing her with that chain would be impossible and, not that I can't or eventually do it, I would rather replace everything in the engine new and rule it all out as the issue then jump into the timing. Same with the valves. The engine itself is in really good shape and at one, before it sat for over a year, it was a very well taken care of bike so I believe she has alot more life left in her. Im not an extremely aggressive rider. I do like to show off from time to time but I'd rather not have to pick her up out of impound. I appreciate the help so far and am open to any suggestions and will chuggin along working these issues out. Oh yeah I do ride her everyday about 2 to 4 miles from home to my sister's, maybe run a few close errands then home. Since she sat I feel that I should at least keep the fluids running through her.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I have a Yosh box. If you want to pay shipping both ways, I can zero it out for you. There would be no charge of course.
That would be totally awesome. I live in Oklahoma City area code 73162. Do you know how much that would cost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
+1 👍
You will probably also find carbon buildup on the backside of the intake valves. You will be able to see it through the throttle body.

If it is blowing black smoke, and the plugs are black, it is running rich, just as Ricky noted. Most likely, someone in the past made some fueling adjustments with a Yosh Box, or something similar, and they didn't get the idle mix quite right. Actually, the fuel table for most of the RPM range may be messed up, based on your description of the way it runs. It would be worth your time to find someone with a Yosh box and zero out the ECM fuel maps. That way you have a good Baseline to start from.

As for the E3 spark plugs, I disagree. The OEM NGK recommended plugs have a proven history - going on two decades now. The TL engine works well with them, and they have good reliability when the other engine parameters are in spec. Also, I wouldn't recommend changing the spark plug heat ratings until you get the fuel maps figured out.
I'm with you on that. I do not like the E3 and I was wanting a real opinion on what someone thought about them in this kind of application so thank you. I am replacing them tomorrow. Great for lawnmowers I believe but liter bikes should be kept to the professional. I'm going NGK all the way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
No idea. My zip is 83616
I'll find out tomorrow. Thank you for that offer I'm sure it needs something like that done. The shops here in OKC are not very reputable at all and the ones that are cost far to much for just a average rider. They are for racers and rich folks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
$800!!?? Nice. I would like to find a score like that.
The first one I bought I only paid $240 but it had taken apart by a tweeker. Took me 2 days to put her back together and she fired right up. Then was stolen the day before I could put it in my name. Great followed by a sad day. I had to have this one and shez all mine this time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,474 Posts
In the photo of the valves (and yes those do look like they've just come out of a coal mine) is that something sitting behind the right valve stem? I can't tell if it is just some artifact of the image or the head of an M8 bolt wedged into the valve seat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
It was the tip of one of the injectors. I had to go after it with hemos that's how I noticed the valves were like that. I got it out though. From what I gather these bikes can't or don't run rich unless someone has set the computer to run that way. Am I correct on this or do all the switches and relays sending. Info to and from ECU cause the ECU to perminently change values. Just wondering if someone had maybe tampered with it or the computer can change itself over time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,474 Posts
If your injectors are falling to pieces that may be a hint as to why it isn't running right.

TLs are finicky beasts and it doesn't take much to throw the fueling off. Changing the exhaust cans, a bad exhaust seal, aftermarket air filters, pretty much any change away from standard can affect things. Not sure what those Yoshi cans are doing but if we assume the bike was set up for them when they went on originally it is possible for things to have drifted away from optimum. It may be that the cans went on and no other work was done in which case the setup could be way out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I bought it used with no back ground on it. I have been trying to do everything I can think of because I would like to try not to mess with the valves or the timing. Last night I tried the PAIR removal and now the bike is unridable. Before I was getting a backfire from the exhaust. They would come at random. No particular set of circumstances would cause it. When it would back fire it would shoot out about a nice 4 inch flame. And every now and then I would get a hickup from the airbox. Just one but it did stall the bike out one day at a red light. I was told the PAIR system delete would help that. It was the complete opposite. Now it is a constant backfire and hickup. Completely unridable. I don't understand what's going on with it.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top