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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just noticed that my neutral light isnt coming on and when i disconnected my gps i didnt get any faultcode come up,now thats not right is it?
Bike still turns over with gps unplugged,which is exactly what the manual says should happen
And yes,still cant get bike to fireup/start, even replaced the whole loom and still wont fire up after a 3-4 weeks now(got spark and fuel)
Not getting any faultcodes.
So far i have replaced,
Coils,plug's,cam sensor, reg/rec, loom, all relay's T.O.S.starter sol,
checked ecu on another rap and its o.k.,igniton,start/kill switchgear,sidestand switch,clutch switch

This fault is doing my fookin head in now:banghead:banghead
 

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TLMONKEY said:
Just noticed that my neutral light isnt coming on and when i disconnected my gps i didnt get any faultcode come up,now thats not right is it?
That's ok. With the GPS disconnected the ECU just thinks the GPS is in neutral. You'll get a GPS fault code if you short the GPS wire to ground.

With the GPS disconnected (i.e. No neutral signal) it should only crank over with the clutch in and side stand up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Steve TLS said:
With the GPS disconnected (i.e. No neutral signal) it should only crank over with the clutch in and side stand up.
Yep steve,
Sidestand is up and clutch is taped up to bar so always pulled in:)
Thinking replace crank sensor next and stator,after that i give up.
I just can't get my head around why it ran until ignition was switched off on the dyno and its not started since:banghead
 

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If the crank sensor is faulty (or cam sensor) it should throw a code. But it might take a good 6 or more seconds of cranking before it registers :dunno
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Steve TLS said:
If the crank sensor is faulty (or cam sensor) it should throw a code. But it might take a good 6 or more seconds of cranking before it registers :dunno
I always crank it for about 10-15 sec steve hoping it will fire/start.
 

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Got a PC connected?

Sounds strange if it cranks but doesn't start if you have both spark and fuel... Have you checked all vacuum hoses? The TB boots for leaks?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Octofinger said:
Got a PC connected?

Sounds strange if it cranks but doesn't start if you have both spark and fuel... Have you checked all vacuum hoses? The TB boots for leaks?
No pc,
Have checked all hoses for leak's and t/b boots are fine.
It is acting like its cam sensor fault(what i mean is it was running until the dyno guy switched igntion off and when he switched it back on it didnt start and hasnt started since:banghead) but that's fine and has been replaced anyway just to be sure.
 

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What do your plugs look like after you've cranked it for a while? Wet? Dry? Do the headers get warm even the slightest? Both front and back cylinder?

How's compression?

Does it smell badly from gas in the air box? Fuel condensed in the air box?

You said it has spark and fuel. How did you check that? Spark at the plugs? Fuel really getting into the engine in a correct mixture?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Octofinger said:
What do your plugs look like after you've cranked it for a while? Wet? Dry? Do the headers get warm even the slightest? Both front and back cylinder?

How's compression?

Does it smell badly from gas in the air box? Fuel condensed in the air box?

You said it has spark and fuel. How did you check that? Spark at the plugs? Fuel really getting into the engine in a correct mixture?
Lightly wet,hard to tell really with brandnew clean shiny plug's.
Bike smells of fuel sometimes,have checked down t/b's and can see it throwing fuel in on first press of start button.
I havent got a comp tester,but seems to have lots of comp(noting that it ran fine until igntion was switched off).
What do ya think about the lack of neutrel light on clocks(tried another set of clocks,same result) and if i disconnect the gps it doesnt throw up a fault code which i thought it should,but even that shouldnt stop it firing/starting?
 

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A broken gps could cause you to loose your neutral signal. In the gps, the neutral signal are grounded when you are in neutral. A faulty gps (or neutral cable) can cause the grounding to never happen, and therefore you won't see the signal.
Look here for the gps electrical layout

(Ripped right of Steve TLS' web site.)

I'm thinking if you really have a spark. If so, how's it's timing? Have you tried another ecu on that bike? Which bike is it? The raptor or the tillis?

I'm bombarding you with questions here, but I'm a bit confused if you still have a problem after changing so many parts... :confused
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Octofinger said:
A broken gps could cause you to loose your neutral signal. In the gps, the neutral signal are grounded when you are in neutral. A faulty gps (or neutral cable) can cause the grounding to never happen, and therefore you won't see the signal.
Look here for the gps electrical layout

(Ripped right of Steve TLS' web site.)

I'm thinking if you really have a spark. If so, how's it's timing? Have you tried another ecu on that bike? Which bike is it? The raptor or the tillis?

I'm bombarding you with questions here, but I'm a bit confused if you still have a problem after changing so many parts... :confused
Ya not the only one that is confused mate.

Its the cagiva raptor with 1060cc tls engine 13.1 ish compression,tlr head's+cams.
When you say timimg i am guessing you mean cam's? if so they are all correctly lined/timed up.
I was told to see if i had spun the woodruff key about 3 weeks ago,so because i didnt have a tool to remove the gen from the crack the simplest way to check(i thought) was to see if the cam's line up with tdc,which they did,so just kept going onto the next possible cause and as we know i have now replaced virtually every electrical part+relay's+cam and crank pickup,the only thing left is the f1 sensors,engine:banghead

I have tried another ecu on bike, but original is o.k. anyway as black no.1 fitted it to her raptor and it fired straight up and ran fine:O
 

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TLMONKEY said:
When you say timimg i am guessing you mean cam's? if so they are all correctly lined/timed up.
I was thinking ignition timing. If something has happened, it could ignite at any stroke...

The thing is, now that you've changed everything, the problem you have now might not be the problem preventing the bike from starting after the dyno. Any plug in the loom with just a little play could be the problem now. You're not safe anywhere...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Octofinger said:
I was thinking ignition timing. If something has happened, it could ignite at any stroke...

The thing is, now that you've changed everything, the problem you have now might not be the problem preventing the bike from starting after the dyno. Any plug in the loom with just a little play could be the problem now. You're not safe anywhere...
Bloodyhell, dont say that Octofinger.

So how do i check ignition timing and what can cause it to be out.
 

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:laugh
Sorry. I didn't mean to disencourage you. I was just saying that you need to be very open minded now, and don't rule out parts you've been working on.

From the beginning:
The fuel pump primes.
The bike cranks when you press the starter button, but doesn't start.
The plugs looks slighty wet. (Could mean it never ignites) If you have your old plugs, you could mount them because it's easier to see on a used plug if it gets wet...
Does the headers feel slightly warm after cranking for a while? If not, you have no ignition of fuel what so ever. (No fuel or no spark or totally mis-timed spark)

I've been reading some, and the only things that could affect ignition timing are the cam position sensor and the crankshaft sensor. Not even sure the cam sensor is involved...
I'd be looking deeper into the ignition to make sure you really have a good well timed spark.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Octofinger said:
From the beginning:
The fuel pump primes. YES
The bike cranks when you press the starter button, but doesn't start. YES
The plugs looks slighty wet. YES (Could mean it never ignites) If you have your old plugs, you could mount them because it's easier to see on a used plug if it gets wet...
Does the headers feel slightly warm after cranking for a while?WILL CHECK
If not, you have no ignition of fuel what so ever. (No fuel or no spark or totally mis-timed spark)

I've been reading some, and the only things that could affect ignition timing are the cam position sensor and the crankshaft sensor. Not even sure the cam sensor is involved...I HAVE REPLACED BOTH

I'd be looking deeper into the ignition to make sure you really have a good well timed spark.
HOW DO I CHECK THAT OCTOFINGER ?

Even though plugs do spark OUTSIDE OF ENGINE, i have always thought it might not be when plugs back in engine,but if that is the case is it possible to check that(COILS ALSO REPLACED) and what would cause that to happen and not throw up a fault code?
Sorry for all the questions mate .
 

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Keep asking man. I feel I've asked more questions than you in this thread. :laugh

There are those ignition timing strobes you might be able to use. You connect it to the battery for power, then connect a sensor to the spark plug cable, and then the strobe lamp flashes in timing with the spark. You do need some kind of ignition timing mark on the engine to be able to see when the spark actually fires. Dunno how to do that on a TL. :(

One thing I thought of... Check the vaccum hose at the fuel pressure regulator. If that one is loose you'll get way to high fuel pressure and that might drown the engine? It's located somewhere between the tb's iirc...

About the neutral signal thingy - try grounding the neutral signal wire and check if your neutral lamp light up? Grounding of the neutral signal is all that the gps does... I guess you don't have a tre connected.

I hope someone else could chime in here and help. I'm running out of ideas. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Octofinger said:
Keep asking man. I feel I've asked more questions than you in this thread. :laugh

There are those ignition timing strobes you might be able to use. You connect it to the battery for power, then connect a sensor to the spark plug cable, and then the strobe lamp flashes in timing with the spark. You do need some kind of ignition timing mark on the engine to be able to see when the spark actually fires. Dunno how to do that on a TL. :(

One thing I thought of... Check the vaccum hose at the fuel pressure regulator. If that one is loose you'll get way to high fuel pressure and that might drown the engine? It's located somewhere between the tb's iirc...

About the neutral signal thingy - try grounding the neutral signal wire and check if your neutral lamp light up? Grounding of the neutral signal is all that the gps does... I guess you don't have a tre connected.

I hope someone else could chime in here and help. I'm running out of ideas. :(

I did have a tre connected until i removed it the otherday,just incase that was/maybe problem, but havent reconnected it as i pulled the wires out of it while disconnecting it:banghead

Just ran out to bike and vacuum hose is on and not loose:O

Now is the time when having a mate who's an auto electrician would have been handy eh:banghead
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well after fitting another loom it still wont start,then i spotted that the replacement loom had the plug missing with the diode/s in that's for the safety system ,so quickly fitted the one off the old loom and turned and the only new symtom is just before the battery dies and the engine has started to turn over v.slow it will 80% of the time make a pop out of the rightside can(rear header),but still no start,i charged battery up and then tried again,no popping whatsoever out of either can until bat is about to die again and engine turning over v.slow might get 1,maybe 2 pops out of the same can,but that's it:banghead
So,
I give up,i have no choice but to give to a shop and let them go through the whole bike and pay the bill,i just hope they find the fault .
But i just wanna say as always THANKS :thumbup
guys for all your help and input.
I will let ya know if/when its fixed and what it was for when someone else has a similar symptom(which i hope never happens)
IAN
 

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I am experiencing the same trouble with my bike ever since it failed on me in October (Fri. 13th). It up and quit on me and the LCD said something like "CHEK". Tried to start it on the roadside but the starter wouldn't even crank. Got it towed home and when I backed it into the garage, it cranked over and ran but sounded really crappy like something inside was messed up. So I started taking everything apart (rad, plugs, etc.). It seems like it was flooding so I pulled the plugs and replaced them and then I cranked it over a few times with the EFI fuse pulled so that the chambers could dry up a bit. I checked the plugs while they were out - cranked a few times to see sparks on plugs and they looked good. I had the same popping noise out of the right can a few times. It sometimes almost catches when I try starting it but nothing yet. Still have to spend some more time troubleshooting. I'm really pissed because my biking buddies are taking a mental health day today since the weather is so nice (60 degrees in Ontario) and I can't go!!!
 
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