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Discussion Starter #1
I know there are more important things than dragging a knee, but I am obcessed with feeling that feeling! Following are a few photos from Cresson a few weeks ago.
Gosh I love it!
Am I just not hanging off the bike enough?


 

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Discussion Starter #2
Im just not riding aggressively enough or maybe more counter steering may help.
 

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your body position looks ok but you could still hang off more.
think about your top knee, not the one you're trying to touch down. it shouldn't be hooked around the tank or it'll stop you sliding your arse to the inside:devious

another thing is the lack of speed! none of the guys behind you are anywhere near getting knee-down and that's the main reason you aren't:yes
 

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More speed followed by more hanging off. For starters, hanging off is sometimes a bit scary so here's what I recommend. Put the edge of the seat in the crack of your butt. Sounds gross and uncomfortable but that's a good measuring stick for how far off the bike you are leaning. Racers will hang off even further but this is usually past most people's comfort zone and a good place to start.

That pluse pushing your knee out and down a tad, combined with a tiny bit more corner speed and in the right turns you'll have your knee down. Easiest turn to get my knee down at Cresson is Horseshoe, turn 7 up the hill in the back. I can touch down every single time just about going up that hill. Other places are harder for me to do it but that's about the easiest.
 

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:stupid And very cool pictures! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok, TWS is Monday, I lot more speed at that track except for the chicane area; I like that part of the track the best at TWS. Anyone can go fast on the long straight there. Staying under 150 is fine with me, it's the corners that are appetizing! You told me that before Jasen~ I'll apply it Monday! Thanks ya'll!
 

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^what they said. I hang off like a monkey to drag a knee. I'm sure it looks stoopid, but the feel of the asphalt on the sliders is second to none! just dont get carried away with it and lean her over more than she can handle (not that I had to say that)
 

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Just ride, and when your knee hits, enjoy it. Knees go down on the pavement with good lines and speed, work on the lines and the knees will come.

 

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I never got my knee down on the street and it took me one and a half sessions to get it down at the track. The thing with me was that I thought I was leaning the bike pretty far when actually I was only doing about half of it's capabilities. It's honestly just a mental barrier that you have to overcome but dont get too caught up with getting that knee down because you'll stop focusing so much on your lines and put yourself into the grass (trust me I know from my first session) You just have to get the mind set that your at a track, not on the street. I learned by putting my outside calf against the side of the bike and hang off as far as possible, then I got comfy doing it and it just came natural and I destroyed a brand new set up pucks in three, maybe four sessions. Your most important thing should be focusing on a good line, once you get faster with that line your knee will drag. One more thing, dont get over your head, I did and I lowsided but hey, it was fun and it was a learning experience. Just keep it on the track, not the street and you'll be fine.
 

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By the way Denee, here are a few "developmental" shots of me in the same corner.

2001



2002



2003





Finally, Diana went around like this a lot and freaked a little when she stuck her knee out and drug it.

 

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Discussion Starter #11
I think Im going to print this stuff and take it to the track as a reminder, it's so simply put when ya'll say it!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
oh, ok, maybe Im on the right track! Just need to hang off, and focus on lines, and when it comes, it comes! appreciate the photo comparisons Doug! Diana looks great! you too of course!
 

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OH, just a heads up, the first time your knee actually touches it's going to startle you a little, so don't panic and twitch the bike around too much. The first time I touched I thought for sure I crashed and then I realized it was my knee and I jerked it right back up and ran a little wide. You'r probably going to do the same thing the first time, but after that it's not scary at all and outright fun. I was almost ready to buy a stunt bike, but after one day and a set of knee pucks, I could care less about stunts, I'll take a corner anyday over a wheelie or stoppie. It's an addiction!!
 

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Remember that just because TWS is a faster track doesn't make it easier to lean into the turns. When we say more cornerspeed it's that you need more corner speed for a given turn. For instance if you usually do a turn at 30mph, then you need to be going 40mph. But don't concentrate on the speedo, you'll know even though your eyes are on the track. Make sense?

Ok Denee, here's how I would attack your upcoming trackday if I were in your situation. What I like to do is do the track, concentrating on fundamentals. But, pick a single turn and determine to yourself that you are going to become the master at THAT turn. Trying to master all the turns will overload you.

For TWS I recommend turn 9 I think it is. You come out of turns 8a and 8b which are the scary turns by the tire wall, come straight and turn 9 is the long horseshoe in this diagram that I've marked in red.



First get your ideal like figured out through that turn. Then once you've got that, make sure your hanging off, try the butt crack thing I said earlier as you can actually feel when your at that point, and approach the turn just a little faster each time.

As you master the turn you'll be going faster and faster and will be lower and lower each time you come through it. Do this and soon enough you'll scare the crap out of yourself as your knee hits the ground.

I suggest this particular corner because it's a nice long long right hander and is tight enough where it's not a really high speed corner like the rest of the track. If your rolling on the gas like you should be through the corner you will be doing rather nicely on the exit of the turn and you have a lot of time leaned over. This was the first place I ever really drug knee. Before lunch I had it down to tapping the knee near the end of the turn. By the end of the day I had it to where I could drop into the turn and drag my knee almost immediately and all the way through the corner to the end. That's a really good feeling.

But like said, don't be actively trying to drag your knee, just master that corner, the knee down will come. Once you've got the hang of one corner, pick another one, maybe one that's giving you fits and then concentrate on that corner. There's a lot of turns at TWS so you can occupy yourself over a good number of trackdays mastering the corners there. When your done you'll realize you still have tons of room to improve though, I know I may feel like I've mastered a few corners but when I get blown away by one of the amature CMRA racers I know I've got a long way to go.

Good luck.
 
J

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you are not hanging off enough.

At first the right hang feels like it's way too much. just try to go excess, more and more.

Usually the problem is that you ain't got enough speed. you go in at certain speed and struckle to get the knee down. if you just try to get it down your driving lines are all over the place. Just come in faster the next lap. then again faster. when you come fast enough, the knee will touch.

you can drive quite safely at 'knee down' speed. IF you hang off enough. You don't accelerate too much. and be smooth, take speed that keeps the knee down through the turn. do not brake during the turn. do not steer much.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Wow! Excellent information you guys!! I'm READY!!
D
 

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nobody wants your next thread to read "damn, i crashed" so don't work yourself up too much about your next session! keep a clear head and set yourself logical targets to increase your speed:D
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I beg your pardon! lol I hold my line, ride a fairly competitive trackday speed, and if they want to pass, that's quite ok. Plus I think you may be able to tell by the photo that I'm not going terribly slow! This is no race, it's a roller skating rink for motorcycles and people ride at their own pace.:thumbup I've been riding B group for a number of years.
 

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And in Denee's defence, she's not one of those annoying liter bike riders who feel the need to squeeze it for all it's worth down the straights. She's quite courteous on the track and if she's holding someone up in the corner they'll have ample opportunity to get round her on the straight.
 
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