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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well what are the big difference? I know there is a bigger flow in the 97 heads! But in real life, what does it mean?!
The 00 head will boost lowend power?
The 97 will boost topend power?
Well that how I think it works!

Look here and explain me the perfomance difference 97 heads vs 00 heads

Red line is my TLS 1997 with 00 engine
- full akrapovic
- airbox mod with lid off
- KN filter
- TLR bellmouths 1,5cm
- IN cams from a TLR, EXcam is old TLS IN repressed

Blue line is my TLS 1997 with 97 engine
- full akrapovic
- airbox mod
- KN filter
- TLR bellmouths 2,5cm
- standard cams

The only difference between the engines is the new cams in the 00 engine. Rest is as good as identic




U can see that the 00 engine with the new cams perfom alot better than the 97 engine with standard cams. Not from 9000rpm-10000rpm, but from 2000-9000rpm the 00 engine with cams really do a good job!
For me the 00 heads should do less perfomance al lover the line?!?! But why didnt they do that? I gained alot of power in lowend and middle by changing to a 00 engine (and cams, but the cams do not alone give all that power)

So there are benefits and nonbenefits getting 97 heads!
the 97 heads must be better for topend power?

or am I wrong?
 

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your pretty much spot on. later model heads flow with higher velocity providing better cylinder filling at lower rpms and better mid range throttle feel. 97 heads will work better for race apps. later heads are way better for a daily rider imho.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So if U see at my graphs! The low/middle power is a combination of smaller heads and other cams? I wonder how the graphs would look like with standard cams?!

The ekstra 4hp on top the 97 has (with standard cams) must be the better flow i the 97heads
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
well the TLR heads! How are they compared to TLS heads?!?!
The TLR has topend power so are the heads with more flow on a tlr? or is it just the combination of cams, higher compression and more?
 

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most of the power difference between the TLR and S is compression. compression is the cheapest way to make more power imho.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
but higher compression. Where do that gain power? Overall?

well a standard TLS vs a standard TLR. The TLR do less power at fx 6000rpm compared to the TLS, but more power in topend compared ti the TLS?! Why that? because of the camdifference? Where is the compression a benefit here when the TLR has less power at a specific rpm number up to 9000rpm
 

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One small but important difference are the bellmouths. Shorter bellmouths mean more topend power for the TLS. Longer mean less topend power.

I ran my TLS with TLR Bellmouths (front 2.5, rear 1.5cm) on track in spring and the topend was really bad. Removed them and gained remarkably topend again.

Greetings
Rufer
 

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:stupid :yes I experienced the same thing with the TLR bellmouths so took them off .
 

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IMHO the extra HP at the extreme RPM is probably the '97 intake ports. IMHO higher mechanical compression ratio probably raises HP everywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
bellmouths is more than just "short gives more topend, long less topend"
I do not agree with that!!!

I have tried alot with bellmouths. And my tuner/dynomapper says that there are no rules for bellmouths. It depends on the rest of the setup, the bike, and the map. I´ll bet none of U have tried to get a handmade map for each setup with bellmouths!

I mean.. If u just try to put them in and make a run. then it can have a negative effect! But if u then gets a handmade map it will mostly give a positive effect!

I´ve tried to loose 8Bhp in a setup and remadjust with Teka! I thought all was wrong, but then I got a handmade map and gained 14hp with same setup! The TEKA couldt give me the 14hp!! I needed a handmade map!

So I wont accept :) different moddings and their benefits/nonbenefits less there was a handmade map to the mod!

Bellmouths normally just remove power around! Just like cams!

Another thing! Do not use 2,5cm and 1,5cm combined!! Thats the worst thing U can. If U do that u need a map for each cyllinder. U have to make bellmouths the same lenght on TLS!

On my TLS the hort (1.5cm) bellmouths gave me more lowend power! :)
 

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I didn't want to tell in general what bellmouths do. But I wanted to point out that the difference you're showing could be affected by the different bellmouth lenght in this way.

Greetings
Rufer
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
:) hehe

What about the heads in TLR? Are they well flowed since TLR has nice clean topend power?
 

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As i said two times, i think like Rufer and Pencon: You forgot something, in fact the R has shorter trottle bodies as the S ( without bellmouths ). When You mount bellmouths to S trottle bodies, they are longer as the R ones with bellmouths. I had bought the bellmouths new from the dealer, but did not mount them cause i fear the lack of topend. I like the kick from 7000 to redline, so the bellmouths are nothing for me.. Interesting would be the shortening of the th. bodies with bellmouths then, so that the tubes are not getting longer as from the factory.
And the R has two injector jets, the second one kicks in at 7000 to get a nice topend rush. This, with the cams, the trottle bodies and the airbox design gives the R topend.
 

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if you just put the tlr bellmouths straight into the s. you'llfind that they both stick up a fair way into the air box.maybe 10-15mm....thats 10-15mm above a load of air....i cut mine down so that they are both almost flat with the base of the airbox... giving a nice smooth entry for the whole of the intake... i cant say i noticed any real difference in power. certainly didn't feel like i lost any......a custom remap would make better use of them i'm sure...
 

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:) hehe

What about the heads in TLR? Are they well flowed since TLR has nice clean topend power?
The TLRs are all the more modern high-velocity large-radius "D" profile intake ports. They generally don't flow as well as the '97 intake ports but have much better small-throttle response and supposedly the higher velocity charge still fills the cylinder nicely with enough cam duration. But I intend to port 'em.
 
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