Setting TPS/Won't Start or Idle Well. - Page 2
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Thread: Setting TPS/Won't Start or Idle Well.

  1. #11
    Baby Twin
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    Yeah, I saw one where the guy was adjusting a Red TL1000S that looks like it comes from the last century. . The maintainance manual doesn’t say anything about 1400rpm. I doubt the manual is wrong, think I’ll stick with that for the time being.
    Cheers,
    Chris.

  2. #12
    AMA Pit Boss Six5's Avatar
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    This may be the YouTube video that twin2 is referring to (linked below). It has been around for a long time, and it actually explains the TPS and TB Sync process fairly well.

    https://youtu.be/AvK-5aQuhNs

    I don't know if this video is where the 1400 RPM reference came from, but it is mentioned at the ~10 minute 25 second mark. And really, that's all it is - a reference point.

    I'm not a tuner, but I'll gladly offer my two cents. The 1400 RPM engine speed is a target to let the user know that the ECM is detecting TPS movement, because that is when the dash mark is expected to move from the center position to the upper position. It is better if the ECM detects throttle movement early, just off idle, rather than later. Late throttle detection introduces a lag into the fuel map response. Probably not a huge issue, but the goal here is to make the throttle response as smooth as possible in the lower RPM range.

    If the engine were tuned to idle at some other speed besides 1200, then the dash mark would/should correspondingly move to the upper level at an RPM slightly higher than the idle speed. Again, it is just a reference point to let you know that the ECM is reading the TPS. Correspondingly, as TPS movement is detected the fuel tables are accessed, and the programmed fuel injection values come into play.

    Feel free to elaborate on, or correct my understanding of this issue.

    January 2012 TLOTM & BBOTM


  3. #13
    Baby Twin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six5 View Post
    This may be the YouTube video that twin2 is referring to (linked below). It has been around for a long time, and it actually explains the TPS and TB Sync process fairly well.

    https://youtu.be/AvK-5aQuhNs

    I don't know if this video is where the 1400 RPM reference came from, but it is mentioned at the ~10 minute 25 second mark. And really, that's all it is - a reference point.

    I'm not a tuner, but I'll gladly offer my two cents. The 1400 RPM engine speed is a target to let the user know that the ECM is detecting TPS movement, because that is when the dash mark is expected to move from the center position to the upper position. It is better if the ECM detects throttle movement early, just off idle, rather than later. Late throttle detection introduces a lag into the fuel map response. Probably not a huge issue, but the goal here is to make the throttle response as smooth as possible in the lower RPM range.

    If the engine were tuned to idle at some other speed besides 1200, then the dash mark would/should correspondingly move to the upper level at an RPM slightly higher than the idle speed. Again, it is just a reference point to let you know that the ECM is reading the TPS. Correspondingly, as TPS movement is detected the fuel tables are accessed, and the programmed fuel injection values come into play.

    Feel free to elaborate on, or correct my understanding of this issue.

    Thanks Six5, I had seen this video but wanted a detailed version for the R, so I checked the service manual which had no mention of the methods used in the video. I had my TPS adjusted at a reputed Suzuki tuner yesterday and they dismissed the high 1400rpm setting, and just did the 1200rpm. They also dynoed the bike while I was there. Seems strange I agree.
    Thanks anyway for your assistance in this foggy matter.
    Chris.

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  5. #14
    Superbike Twin
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    So the bike is OK now ?

    And my 1997 bike is from the last century

  6. #15
    GP Champ rxf610's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twin2 View Post
    So the bike is OK now ?

    And my 1997 bike is from the last century
    Hey, I have 97 and love it like a newborn...

    I can add some info:

    The 1200rpm is a value set by the manual... (which also corresponds to a map value)

    The 1400rpm is arbitrary, but as Six5 puts it so elegantly, it is to see that the TPS is in fact READING and the ECU applies the map accordingly. Below are the ECU dump values...

    <table type="Static Y Axis" name="RPM" storagetype="uint8" endian="big" sizey="29">
    <data>800</data>
    <data>1200</data>
    <data>1600</data>
    ...
    </table>

    The fuel map runs in values of 400 rpm.. from 800 to 12000

    It is cross referenced against a throttle position map:

    <table type="3D" name="TPS Fuel Rear A (1063F)" category="Fuel Maps A" storagetype="uint8" endian="big" sizex="19" sizey="29" userlevel="1">
    <scaling units="UNKNOWN" expression="x" to_byte="x" format="#" fineincrement="1" coarseincrement="10" />
    <description>Map data is at bin address 0x10083</description>
    <table type="Static X Axis" name="% Throttle" storagetype="uint8" endian="big" sizex="19" >
    <data>0.0</data>
    <data>0.7</data>
    <data>1.3</data>
    <data>1.9</data>
    <data>2.3</data>
    <data>2.9</data>
    <data>5.2</data>
    <data>7.5</data>
    <data>9.9</data>
    <data>14.3</data>
    <data>18.8</data>
    <data>23.3</data>
    <data>27.8</data>
    <data>37.0</data>
    <data>46.1</data>
    <data>55.1</data>
    <data>64.1</data>
    <data>82.3</data>
    <data>100</data>
    </table>

    As you can see the lower values are way more "increment" and the WOT area is more "grainy".

    Sorry for all the technical crap, but it is to basically to come to one conclusion...

    My signature for the last like 5 years...

    Listen to Six5!
    ... listen to Six5 ...

  7. #16
    GP Champ rxf610's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stilgoe1972 View Post
    I had my TPS adjusted at a reputed Suzuki tuner yesterday and they dismissed the high 1400rpm setting, and just did the 1200rpm.
    Six5 will be all coy, but there is literally ZERO chance that technician knows more about TL's than Six5. ZERO PERCENT CHANCE.

    If the tuner is not watching for the top bar movement indicating the TPS is reading just off throttle, then he/she is not "reputed" and doing it wrong. And if he/she also wasn't syncing the throttle bodies in tandem, then again, not doing it correctly...
    ... listen to Six5 ...

  8. #17
    Baby Twin
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    Quote Originally Posted by twin2 View Post
    So the bike is OK now ?

    And my 1997 bike is from the last century
    Ha, I was referring to the quality of the video material seeing as it looks like it derived from vhs, but now you mention it your bike is from the last century!! Funny when you put it like that
    It’s running fine. Even better since I removed the aftermarket cans, and put the standard ones back on. I will put the aftermarket cans back on when I can afford a powercommander to compliment them.
    Cheers,
    Chris.

  9. #18
    Superbike Twin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stilgoe1972 View Post
    Ha, I was referring to the quality of the video material seeing as it looks like it derived from vhs, but now you mention it your bike is from the last century!! Funny when you put it like that
    It’s running fine. Even better since I removed the aftermarket cans, and put the standard ones back on. I will put the aftermarket cans back on when I can afford a powercommander to compliment them.
    Cheers,
    Chris.
    Yes I knew you where talking about the quality....
    But I got to thinking....well it could very well BE from the last century LOL..
    Then I got to thinking about my bike !

    But hey it shure runs well for a last century bike

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