2002 Tl1000r charging/electrical issues
Page 1 of 15 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 150
Like Tree3Likes

Thread: 2002 Tl1000r charging/electrical issues

  1. #1
    Baby Twin
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    40

    2002 Tl1000r charging/electrical issues

    So bought a TL1000r couple of weeks ago, 2 days later try to start it up after work and it wouldn't fire up, so had to get jump start it to get it going again.

    So anyway I figured it was simply a case of worn down battery, bought a Motobatt to replace it, fitted that then used the bike perhaps 5-6 times since then travelling 6-8 miles each time, finish work a couple of days later and again will not start, it tries to turn over but seems just not enough to get it going. I tried bumping a few times then retried electric start and fortunately it fired up this time.

    My limited knowledge suggested that the Reg/Rec is was screwed and so wasn’t recharging the battery whilst its in motion, either that or the Datatool alarm is sapping all power from the battery - though I'd be surprised if it could drain a brand new battery in 3 days.

    I was directed to the Charging issues diagnostic thread on this forum, and came up with the following results:

    With ignition off, unloaded battery = 12.96v
    Ignition on, headlights on , not running = 12.13v
    Bike started, running at idle = Went to I think 13.5v at idle and dropped to 13.3v at 5k rpm - these are rough figures as I can't remember exactly but it was certainly above 13v.

    On the reg/rec there was no continuity between any of the 3 pins versus any of the 4 pins.
    Each of the 3 pins read about 2.3ohms on my meter. None of them showed continuity when tested against ground.
    Voltage readings at idle were 27v at each pin. At 5.5k rpm was around 90v.
    I haven’t tested the stator itself yet – the prospect of having to drain the oil put me off with the ever dwindling daylight I had.
    Checked the spark plugs and no evidence of fouling, replaced them anyway.


    Went ahead and did the charging mod described on this forum directing the output of the reg/rec directly back to the battery. Drove the bike to work the next day ok, but again come home time the bike would not start. Had to jump it again.

    I wondered if the charging mod had been done properly - measuring across battery with engine idle gave ~13v, not the 14v this mod is supposed to give. To try and test if the wiring was sound I disconnected the wires leading to the positive terminal and checked the voltage running down it whilst the engine was idling - only got 0.8v - I've no idea if this is a legit was to test the mod, but if it is, then thinking maybe that voltage isn't right, or suggests the Reg/Rec is actually screwed.

    I charged up the battery overnight with the intent to measure it at different intervals throughout the day – before turning engine on, at idle, then again when I got to work with engine still running and without, then half way through the day, then just before I went home to see if I could spot the point where the battery was being drained, however this morning even after a fresh charge the bike wouldn’t start.

    Measurements wise I got as far as:


    Freshly charged battery: 14.06v
    Connected to bike, ignition off: 14.06v
    Ignition on, lights on: 12.6v

    At this point I tried starting the bike, I'd forgotten the lights were on, this probably was the problem.

    Ignition on, lights off: 13.03v

    So the mere act of turning the headlights on seems to make the battery drop by ~1.5v, I'm guessing starting the bike up without lights on is enough to get it going but driving with lights on saps it so that by the time I get where I'm going the battery is already too drained to do much else.

    So, I think I need to look into this headlight mod to solve this. I still don't understand why I have to do all these mods just to have a functioning bike.

    Tempted to buy a replacement mosfet regulated reg/rec anyway, but they are expensive and this bike is eating money like there is no tomorrow so don’t really want to gamble that much on the off chance it might solve it.

    Any help appreciated, I’m desperate now and losing sleep thinking of the money I paid for it, and continue to spend on it, and its basically a write off at the moment 
    Brainless likes this.

  2. #2
    Superbike Twin NGagne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    115
    I had simirlar problem with My bike, I would try some other test like:
    - Check every connector and make sure that they are free of corrosion.

    - Try to mesure the voltage when you start you bike, if it drop to much your ECU will not have the required current to activate the spark plug, injector, etc. I dont rememeber the exact number but below 10v is a problem for sure. It can be a sign of a bad battery, not likely because new. i solve that problem by instaling a HEADLIGHT OFF DURING START MOD. (You can TEST if it will solve the problem by disconnecting the 2 headlight connector bulb and give it a try or turn completely off you head light if you can.)

    - Try to Jump start your bike with his own battery ( I know it sound stupid...) What you have to do is connect the jumper cable on your battery (your battery can stay in place and must be connected to the bike), connect other negatif end to the frame or engine close to the Starter, turn the key ON and apply curent the positive on the starter wire close to the starter. TAKE YOUR TIME IT IS DANGEROUS... If it start that way it will indicate a Starter relay problem or corrosion on the connector somewhere.

    Good luck let us know more detail...
    Last edited by NGagne; 12-10-2013 at 07:35 AM.
    --------------------------------
    Tl1000s 2000
    Yosh Can + K&N Filter + Technolusion Box
    DID X-ring Chain + JT Spocket 17t /42t
    OEM stering damper with oďl 2.5w
    EBC clutch spring with OEM Plates
    Front Nissin Caliper
    Red DEL dash
    1/5 Rifleman insert
    NO OIL in Airbox custom MOD
    R1 rear shock MOD
    TRE 6,8k Owms MOD
    Charging MOD + PLUS MOD
    Headlight Relay MOD + off during Start MOD
    SV1000 Push rod Seal MOD

  3. #3
    One Liter Duc Eater Pat Man TLR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    762
    Welcome. Check your yellow and your black connector under the left front turn signal cover also check your ground under the left side pannel close to where the coolant hose come out from the frame.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    TLZone.net
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    AMA Pit Boss snowblind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bucks, UK
    Posts
    3,450
    Looks for Ring-in's trick with a mains light-bulb to test the stator. I'd also check the 4-way connector for the starter relay. Its water trap.
    Like my TL I'm old, overweight and badly maintained but I can still surprise you by how fast I can move.

  6. #5
    Baby Twin
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    40
    It sucks because at the moment I'm having to wait until the weekends so I have some daylight to see what the hell I'm doing. I have some friends who have offered to help me with this at the weekend, so I think its going to involve a complete strip down and testing of all connections and plugs and components, whilst I'm there I'll have them check my Charger mod as well as implement the Headlight relay mod, "+" mod and grounding mod to give me the best possible chance of getting juice back to the battery and the most power when trying to start it up - it is pretty cold in the mornings at the moment so no doubt that isn't helping the situation.

    Not having any luck finding the mains light bulb stator test though :/

    Oh and thanks for all the replies so far as well.

  7. #6
    AMA Pit Boss snowblind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bucks, UK
    Posts
    3,450
    The useful info is on page 7-9 of the manual. Anyway, there's the 3 wires coming out of the generator. Connector on the end. Should be able to pick any two and either stick a meter across or find a regular mains light bulb and hook that up. The output should be 70V @5000rpm. If the light bulb lights then you've got useful output. Care obviously as 70V is enough to give you a decent kick.
    Like my TL I'm old, overweight and badly maintained but I can still surprise you by how fast I can move.

  8. #7
    Evil Twin Brainless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Murf TN
    Posts
    483
    Quote Originally Posted by Methtical View Post
    So bought a TL1000r couple of weeks ago, 2 days later try to start it up after work and it wouldn't fire up, so had to get jump start it to get it going again.

    So anyway I figured it was simply a case of worn down battery, bought a Motobatt to replace it, fitted that then used the bike perhaps 5-6 times since then travelling 6-8 miles each time, finish work a couple of days later and again will not start, it tries to turn over but seems just not enough to get it going. I tried bumping a few times then retried electric start and fortunately it fired up this time.

    My limited knowledge suggested that the Reg/Rec is was screwed and so wasn’t recharging the battery whilst its in motion, either that or the Datatool alarm is sapping all power from the battery - though I'd be surprised if it could drain a brand new battery in 3 days.

    I was directed to the Charging issues diagnostic thread on this forum, and came up with the following results:

    With ignition off, unloaded battery = 12.96v
    Ignition on, headlights on , not running = 12.13v
    Bike started, running at idle = Went to I think 13.5v at idle and dropped to 13.3v at 5k rpm - these are rough figures as I can't remember exactly but it was certainly above 13v.

    On the reg/rec there was no continuity between any of the 3 pins versus any of the 4 pins.
    Each of the 3 pins read about 2.3ohms on my meter. None of them showed continuity when tested against ground.
    Voltage readings at idle were 27v at each pin. At 5.5k rpm was around 90v.
    I haven’t tested the stator itself yet – the prospect of having to drain the oil put me off with the ever dwindling daylight I had.
    Checked the spark plugs and no evidence of fouling, replaced them anyway.


    Went ahead and did the charging mod described on this forum directing the output of the reg/rec directly back to the battery. Drove the bike to work the next day ok, but again come home time the bike would not start. Had to jump it again.

    I wondered if the charging mod had been done properly - measuring across battery with engine idle gave ~13v, not the 14v this mod is supposed to give. To try and test if the wiring was sound I disconnected the wires leading to the positive terminal and checked the voltage running down it whilst the engine was idling - only got 0.8v - I've no idea if this is a legit was to test the mod, but if it is, then thinking maybe that voltage isn't right, or suggests the Reg/Rec is actually screwed.

    I charged up the battery overnight with the intent to measure it at different intervals throughout the day – before turning engine on, at idle, then again when I got to work with engine still running and without, then half way through the day, then just before I went home to see if I could spot the point where the battery was being drained, however this morning even after a fresh charge the bike wouldn’t start.

    Measurements wise I got as far as:


    Freshly charged battery: 14.06v
    Connected to bike, ignition off: 14.06v
    Ignition on, lights on: 12.6v

    At this point I tried starting the bike, I'd forgotten the lights were on, this probably was the problem.

    Ignition on, lights off: 13.03v

    So the mere act of turning the headlights on seems to make the battery drop by ~1.5v, I'm guessing starting the bike up without lights on is enough to get it going but driving with lights on saps it so that by the time I get where I'm going the battery is already too drained to do much else.

    So, I think I need to look into this headlight mod to solve this. I still don't understand why I have to do all these mods just to have a functioning bike.

    Tempted to buy a replacement mosfet regulated reg/rec anyway, but they are expensive and this bike is eating money like there is no tomorrow so don’t really want to gamble that much on the off chance it might solve it.

    Any help appreciated, I’m desperate now and losing sleep thinking of the money I paid for it, and continue to spend on it, and its basically a write off at the moment 
    This is one of the greatest issue reporting post I've seen in a long time. Thanks for taking the time.

    That said: IMWO

    Ignition on, lights on: 12.6v
    Ignition on, lights off: 13.03v
    This tells me there's definitely something wrong with the headlight system.

    BUT as you mentioned you just bought the bike, I would also highly suggest you bring the battery to a shop that can load test it and make sure it's still good. You did mentioned you charged it and you measure 14.06V. But that doesn't mean much if you measured that right after you disconnected the charger or while the charger is on. You must make sure you have a good working battery first, otherwise all tests and troubleshooting work will be for nothing.

    Back to the issue: headlights drawing that much current is usually sign of bad connection creating resistance which in turn require the system to draw more "juice" and drain your battery much faster than normal. As mentioned before: yellow gang connector under the left ram air duct: yellow/white wire and black/red wire if you're in Europe (My guess is that you're outside of the US with a TL with headlight switch on/off).
    Keep in mind that even if you went with the headlight mod your current OEM headlight wiring system will still need to be in operating status as your headlight mod still uses it; hence you MUST fix this.

    Here, you can see the yellow/white being bypassed outside of the yellow gang because the inside was burnt up and can't hold a terminal anymore.

    Once that fixed, yes: check on your charging mod to make sure you are still charging at approx 14V @ 5000RPM. If the voltage drops while the RPM's go up, your regulator is "getting tired." If the charging system show anything less than 13V, you need to troubleshoot the system.

    It would also be worth looking at your Starter Relay connector:


    A few others to look into are:
    headlight bulb connector:


    Stator connector:


    R/R connector:


    Main Ground harness connector:



    It is well worth to go MOSFET. All my bikes have all the headlight mod and charging mod in one version or another.
    Charging mod with MOSFET


    Charging mod with OEM r/r


    Good luck this weekend.
    *IMWO = In My WORTHLESS Opinion.

  9. #8
    AMA Pit Boss snowblind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bucks, UK
    Posts
    3,450
    Just going back and re-reading the original post - 90V out of the generator means its working well enough to charge the battery. Don't think there's any need to start ripping that out just yet.
    Like my TL I'm old, overweight and badly maintained but I can still surprise you by how fast I can move.

  10. #9
    AMA Pit Boss Six5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Arizona, USA
    Posts
    4,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Methtical View Post
    .... I'll have them check my Charger mod as well as implement the Headlight relay mod, "+" mod and grounding mod to give me the best possible chance of getting juice back to the battery and the most power when trying to start it up - ......
    The "grounding mod" you want to do involves removing the connector and replacing the wire (shown in the photo from Brainless below) with a larger gage and a clean connection to the engine case. That is the bulk of the TL's grounding problem - unless there are individual failed crimps inside the loom, but those are rare.


    The "grounding mod" described in the Frequent Mods forum is not worthwhile, IMO.



    January 2012 TLOTM & BBOTM


  11. #10
    AMA Pit Boss Six5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Arizona, USA
    Posts
    4,040
    Quite a comprehensive post there Brainless. Nice job.

    But you didn't leave anything for the rest of to talk about.


    So, I found something to critique. Please don't be put off by it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brainless View Post
    ....
    This tells me there's definitely something wrong with the headlight system.
    .....

    Back to the issue: headlights drawing that much current is usually sign of bad connection creating resistance which in turn require the system to draw more "juice" and drain your battery much faster than normal. As mentioned before: yellow gang connector under the left ram air duct: yellow/white wire and black/red wire if you're in Europe (My guess is that you're outside of the US with a TL with headlight switch on/off).
    Keep in mind that even if you went with the headlight mod your current OEM headlight wiring system will still need to be in operating status as your headlight mod still uses it; hence you MUST fix this.

    ....
    ....
    .

    The 1.0 volt change in battery voltage with the headlights switched on/off is rather typical in my experience. The dual low beams draw about 9 amps of steady current. That's a sizable load for that battery, so the voltage drop is not too surprising. However, any resistance in the circuit, due to bad terminals, or wires, or whatever, will not cause the lights to draw more current. In fact, any added resistance will reduce the current in the circuit, and thus lighten the load on the battery. Of course those resistive sections will heat up, but the power consumption from the battery won't increase because of it. However, the lights will be dimmer because they are not getting the full voltage of the battery.

    Otherwise you covered all the bases.


    As Snowblind noted, the test numbers from the stator look good. I doubt that is the problem.

    The regulator, as you noted, could be tired. I have read where some lose their ability to regulate as they heat up. The output current may drop off.

    There is also the possibility that the fuse holder used in the Charging Mod is faulty. That has happened more than once. It happened to me personally. The fuse holder heats up, or becomes resistive due to poor internal connections, and prevents the charging current from getting to the battery. So then, as the ride continues the battery is only being exhausted and not recharged.
    January 2012 TLOTM & BBOTM


Page 1 of 15 1234511 ... LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

2002 suzuki tl1000r key on no power
,
how to know if your relay rectifer is working properly on2001suz tl1000r
,

motorcycle headlight relay wiring diagram

,
tl 1000 headlight switch wire code
,

tl1000r battery not charging

,

tl1000r charging mod

,
tl1000r did mod still charge
,
tl1000r electrical problems
,
tl1000r new battery
,
tl1000r problems
,
what do i use as starter relay motorcycle
,
wire diagram 02 suzuki tl 1000r fuse box in color
Click on a term to search our site for related topics.