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Thread: 2002 Tl1000r charging/electrical issues

  1. #31
    Baby Twin
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    So I was running late for work on the Friday so didnt have time to test the bike out, then was at a works xmas party, so was far too hungover to do anything bike related on the Saturday

    Which brings us to today, Measured voltage across battery with ignition on, headlights off, was 13.5v, started the bike, voltage dropped to just above 11, but bike fired up in 2 seconds. Was measuring 14v idling. Took it for a short drive, a equivalent distance to my work commute and then left it to sit for a few hours and tried it again, once more starts up with no trouble.

    So.... it would appear that the issue has been resolved through the charging mod alone. I will reserve complete confidence until I do a couple of runsn to work and back, anything past 3 days would be a record since owning the bike so if it makes it that far then it will be safe to say the problems solved.

    I did receieve the relays I had ordered though, and looking over the headlight relay mod, it seems the principle behind it is to cut the power to the headlights whilst hitting the starter switch to allow more pwoer to go towards starting the bike up - my question is does simply switching the headlights off before starting not achieve the same thing?

  2. #32
    AMA Pit Boss snowblind's Avatar
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    It does. The headlight relay mod is more for US markets where they don't have the option to turn the lights off as standard.

    The idea is to isolate the lights when the starter button is pressed. Its a way of trying to wring the last bit of juice out for starting.
    IMHO its wishful thinking in some ways. Compared to the current draw from the starter the lights put a relatively insignificant load on the whole process.
    You are talking about 1 or 2 amps and a half a volt drop versus a couple of hundred amps for the starter. Unless your battery is weak in the first place or there's some other deficiency in the wiring its not going to make a vast difference. But, in some cases, every little helps.

    Paradoxically, for those of us using Lithium batteries the advice when the weather is cold is actually to make sure the lights are on for about 30s before starting. It raises the internal temperature of the cells which don't function at their best below about 5C. Turning the lights on brings the cells to life.
    Like my TL I'm old, overweight and badly maintained but I can still surprise you by how fast I can move.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowblind View Post
    It does. The headlight relay mod is more for US markets where they don't have the option to turn the lights off as standard.

    The idea is to isolate the lights when the starter button is pressed. Its a way of trying to wring the last bit of juice out for starting.
    IMHO its wishful thinking in some ways. Compared to the current draw from the starter the lights put a relatively insignificant load on the whole process.
    You are talking about 1 or 2 amps and a half a volt drop versus a couple of hundred amps for the starter. Unless your battery is weak in the first place or there's some other deficiency in the wiring its not going to make a vast difference. But, in some cases, every little helps.

    Paradoxically, for those of us using Lithium batteries the advice when the weather is cold is actually to make sure the lights are on for about 30s before starting. It raises the internal temperature of the cells which don't function at their best below about 5C. Turning the lights on brings the cells to life.

    Interesting thanks.

    So probably not worth the bother to implement this in a UK mode since I can just flick the switch off? Relays only cost me £10 so not as if its a big loss, besides I can still use one for the "Plus" mod that seems worthwhile as well.

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  5. #34
    AMA Pit Boss stu_m's Avatar
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    The headlight relay mod also takes load off the wires running through the starter relay causing less heat build up etc

    IMO its worth it as you can see the difference in how bright the headlights are once done and is better for night riding too

    I think the connector on the starter relayis your problem with starting and removing it and putting it back has gave it a decent connection allowing the power to flow

    Its evident it's been heating up by the melting of the plug in one of the pics

  6. #35
    AMA Pit Boss Six5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methtical View Post
    ...
    it seems the principle behind it is to cut the power to the headlights whilst hitting the starter switch to allow more pwoer to go towards starting the bike up - my question is does simply switching the headlights off before starting not achieve the same thing?
    The relay that cuts power to the headlights was an after thought. It was not the original intent of the modification.


    Quote Originally Posted by snowblind View Post
    It does. The headlight relay mod is more for US markets where they don't have the option to turn the lights off as standard.

    ......
    Not quite right snowblind. See below.....



    Quote Originally Posted by Methtical View Post
    Interesting thanks.

    So probably not worth the bother to implement this in a UK mode since I can just flick the switch off? ......
    On the contrary, it IS worth the bother. See below....



    Quote Originally Posted by stu_m View Post
    The headlight relay mod also takes load off the wires running through the starter relay causing less heat build up etc

    IMO its worth it as you can see the difference in how bright the headlights are once done and is better for night riding too

    ......



    The Headlight Relay Mod was developed to bypass the poorly rated design of the OEM loom. If you examine the path of the headlight current, you will notice that there are FOUR gang connectors, one dimmer switch, one ignition switch, (plus one lights ON/Off switch on Euro models), and the starter relay connector which it must pass through - not to mention a number of undersized wires to carry the load. All of these points offer resistance to the flow of current. Yes, when everything is new and shiny it is a very small resistance, but after a few years have gone by, the road grime, salts, and good ol' wet UK weather will turn those same terminals and switches into formidable obstacles for getting reliable power to the headlights.

    Since the dual headlight systems of the US, UK, and Canada draw a constant nine amps of current whenever the lights are on, it is imperative that all the connection points be pristine. Many of you know it is not at all uncommon to hear of "dim headlights" or "flickering headlights." That happens because the questionable connections in the OEM loom are corroding and becoming resistive, and that means they will begin to get hot. Gradually, these hot spots restrict the current going to the headlights and ultimately burn up wires and connectors.

    Enter the Headlight Relay Mod - It reroutes the nine amps of headlight current through a dedicated circuit that is properly sized to carry the load, and it is done with a minimum of potential resistance points. Typically, there are only a fuse holder, the relay and its connections, and the headlight receptacles. Therefore, the actual voltage at the headlight is very close to the same level that is across the battery - somewhere around 14 volts when the engine is cruising. That means brighter lights that don't flicker. It also means there is no more fretting about which connector will over heat next and burn up, since the OEM portion of the headlight circuit only controls the relay's coil now.

    The "headlight cut off while cranking the engine over" feature is just a fringe benefit that D'Ecosse threw in for good measure. The real benefit of the mod is removing the headlight current from the OEM loom.


    See D'Ecosse's thread for the proper implementation of this mod.
    https://www.tlzone.net/forums/frequen...ki-wiring.html

    And just for reference, here is the Charging Mod.
    https://www.tlzone.net/forums/frequen...de-thread.html


    January 2012 TLOTM & BBOTM


  7. #36
    AMA Pit Boss snowblind's Avatar
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    I take the point and I do understand the motivation. The moron inside me says this also equates to replacing crap wiring with more wiring. The better, albeit more difficult, solution is to replace the crap wiring with better wiring. One of the goals of the original loom design will have been to use as little and as few wires as possible. The downside of that is that its built closer to the minimum tolerances and so age and decay will be exaggerated. Its a function of the law of project management. This states that any project is governed by 3 factors: money, time and quality. The "product" of the 3 is a constant such that if you choose to enhance any one factor then another must suffer. If time is of the essence and you want to preserve quality it will cost more. If you want to save time and money then quality suffers. This is a case in point. To build the working loom to a given price imposed a limit on the quality of the components.


    Philosophy 101 on a dank Monday morning.
    Like my TL I'm old, overweight and badly maintained but I can still surprise you by how fast I can move.

  8. #37
    GP Champ rxf610's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowblind View Post
    I take the point and I do understand the motivation. The moron inside me says this also equates to replacing crap wiring with more wiring. The better, albeit more difficult, solution is to replace the crap wiring with better wiring. One of the goals of the original loom design will have been to use as little and as few wires as possible. The downside of that is that its built closer to the minimum tolerances and so age and decay will be exaggerated. Its a function of the law of project management. This states that any project is governed by 3 factors: money, time and quality. The "product" of the 3 is a constant such that if you choose to enhance any one factor then another must suffer. If time is of the essence and you want to preserve quality it will cost more. If you want to save time and money then quality suffers. This is a case in point. To build the working loom to a given price imposed a limit on the quality of the components.


    Philosophy 101 on a dank Monday morning.
    And Project Management 101! =P

    Price wise the mod is not that bad, especially if you haven't done the charging mod. It costs almost nothing. My younger brother has a 250cc scooter. We were having the same problems exhibited by a lackluster charge system as our final hump to put that thing back on the road. It was the longest wildest journey on that rebuild, and our last hurdle! Just when we were going to throw in the towel, I mocked it up from the loom I created for my TL. Just by rerouting the charge function bought us nearly 2 volts at his idle and I haven't jump started him since...

    Then with the bigger projects, you can just do what I do. Slowly stockpile parts until you have all the pieces laughing at you in the garage. Then procrastinate further.
    ... listen to Six5 ...

  9. #38
    AMA Pit Boss snowblind's Avatar
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    Procrastination is the thief of time.

    We'll nick the bastard just as soon as we get around to it.
    Like my TL I'm old, overweight and badly maintained but I can still surprise you by how fast I can move.

  10. #39
    Evil Twin Brainless's Avatar
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    Let me be clear here: the headlight mod DOES NEED 2 relays - (2 top in Decosse's schematic)
    The third relay (bottom) is a relay that will cut off the headlights when you push on the ignition button. That one is not needed if you have a a headlight switch. It is not recommended to use that mod with HID's.



    Methtical:
    As Six5 has stated, your starter relay connector show fatigue and should be replaced. I'm willing to bet that's where your issue is.
    *IMWO = In My WORTHLESS Opinion.

  11. #40
    GP Champ rxf610's Avatar
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    Brainless,

    I think the cut relay takes the ground loop amperage out of the equation too (shown in diagram as black on top and subsequently used to merely trigger the lights circuit after the mod is installed and known to cause issues), which as Six5 noted is another benefit. The cut while starting is merely a byproduct of good electrical design by D'Ecosse.

    Look at one of the stock grounds.



    The relay cut to ground alleviates a convoluted path to ground back through the system. Six5 will correct me if I am wrong, but the "facts" I am stating hopefully are just paraphrases of Six5's lovely explanation.
    ... listen to Six5 ...

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