2002 Tl1000r charging/electrical issues - Page 2
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Thread: 2002 Tl1000r charging/electrical issues

  1. #11
    Evil Twin Brainless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six5 View Post
    Quite a comprehensive post there Brainless. Nice job.

    But you didn't leave anything for the rest of to talk about.


    So, I found something to critique. Please don't be put off by it.






    [snip]
    Thank you, master, for correcting my recollection of my 9th grade physics class (which, might I add, didn't take in this couple decades).

    Quote Originally Posted by Six5 View Post

    There is also the possibility that the fuse holder used in the Charging Mod is faulty. That has happened more than once. It happened to me personally. The fuse holder heats up, or becomes resistive due to poor internal connections, and prevents the charging current from getting to the battery. So then, as the ride continues the battery is only being exhausted and not recharged.
    I can vouch for that. I can also vouch for a faulty fuse. And no: the fuse never blew.
    *IMWO = In My WORTHLESS Opinion.

  2. #12
    Baby Twin
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    Thanks for all the replies.

    BUT as you mentioned you just bought the bike, I would also highly suggest you bring the battery to a shop that can load test it and make sure it's still good. You did mentioned you charged it and you measure 14.06V. But that doesn't mean much if you measured that right after you disconnected the charger or while the charger is on. You must make sure you have a good working battery first, otherwise all tests and troubleshooting work will be for nothing.
    I’d replaced the original battery with a brand new one after this occurred the first time as I just assumed that the battery was knackered. So the new one is a Motobatt - not sure if you are familiar with the brand in the US but it’s the goto battery for high cranking amps and winter usage. I did measure about 10 mins after taking off the charger to act as a baseline for all the other measurements I wanted to do, but sadly didn’t get very far with that!

    Back to the issue: headlights drawing that much current is usually sign of bad connection creating resistance which in turn require the system to draw more "juice" and drain your battery much faster than normal. As mentioned before: yellow gang connector under the left ram air duct: yellow/white wire and black/red wire if you're in Europe (My guess is that you're outside of the US with a TL with headlight switch on/off).
    Keep in mind that even if you went with the headlight mod your current OEM headlight wiring system will still need to be in operating status as your headlight mod still uses it; hence you MUST fix this.
    Ok so I had a little time last night to take left hand fairing off and inspect the connections, took some photos, everything looks ok to me, but I’m an untrained eye, so:












    I also checked the headlight connectors and they looked fine as well – nothing obvious anyway.

    Now here is where it gets interesting.

    After checking all these connections and cables, I wanted to test the charging mod was rigged up properly. So I measure across the battery with ignition off, get something like 13.3v. I had to jump start it again to get the engine idling. However with it idling, I measured across the battery again, and lo and behold I’m getting 14.3v IIRC, I rev up to 5k rpm and its 14.5v – this is now suggesting the charging mod is working.

    After speaking with a friend who’s more knowledgable about bikes overall, we came to the conclusion that either
    a) the reg/rec is faulty and is working intermittently but is on its way to a permanent death,
    b) when checking the connections/wiring, I inadvertently cleaned a connection, reconnected some broken circuit…..just did SOMETHING that now seems to be giving me the expected voltages that the charging mod provides.

    With headlights on voltage still did not fall below 14v.

    I will certainly look into buying a MOSFET regulated reg/rec after xmas is over with – at it stands I don’t have the funds what with spending a lot of money to buy the bike in the first place and it being this time of year. So if the charging mod remains functional for the mean time to allow me to continue to use the bike regularly then that will at least be something.

    So now what I need to do is make sure it stays giving me 14v and use the bike to see if I still have trouble starting it after the journey to work or wherever, which I will do tomorrow. If the 14v disappears I will reinspect/slightly move the wiring and see if it comes back in an effort to zero in on the problem area.

    I’ve also ordered the Relays for the headlight mod and the Plus mod. I am in no way well versed in doing any of this sort of stuff, so I will probably start a new thread asking for help when the time comes in an “explain like I’m five” fashion.

  3. #13
    AMA Pit Boss Six5's Avatar
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    There are signs of over heating in the starter relay connector (the loom side). This is part of the problem.

    January 2012 TLOTM & BBOTM


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  5. #14
    Baby Twin
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    Is that caused by the bad wiring and rectified by the charging mod? How easy is it to replace that connector?

  6. #15
    AMA Pit Boss snowblind's Avatar
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    I've had experience of a reg/rec unit partially/intermittently failing. It was a bugger to trace the fault since most of the time it checked out fine. Periodically it would trip out and cease to perform any useful function.
    Replaced it and everything has been good since.

    And just cos I always drone on about these things can I recommend replacing your lead/acid motobatt with a lithium/iron option instead? Smaller, lighter and much higher current delivery. Drawbacks are that they are expensive and can be temperamental in cold (<5C) conditions but other than that a big improvement all over. I'm using a Shorai item in my TLR and I'm happy to endorse them. Easiest way to knock 2kg off the weight of the bike apart from going on a diet myself.
    Like my TL I'm old, overweight and badly maintained but I can still surprise you by how fast I can move.

  7. #16
    GP Champ rxf610's Avatar
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    Take me as a novice, I am hopefully learning the ways of Six5, but I think he will maybe say it is in the lack luster wiring in the starter relay circuitry. Like you say you are jumping the bike to get it going, but a battery with full amperage and 14V with a clean path to the starter should fire the bike up no problems. I say inspect all hot and ground through the starting system. Maybe measure continuity between relay to batt and relay to starter. Start with that melted line... I have my bike apart, so I am tidying up electrical as best I can.

    I just did the Six5 approved ground mod.



    Quote Originally Posted by Methtical View Post
    Is that caused by the bad wiring and rectified by the charging mod? How easy is it to replace that connector?
    ... listen to Six5 ...

  8. #17
    AMA Pit Boss Six5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methtical View Post
    Is that caused by the bad wiring and rectified by the charging mod? How easy is it to replace that connector?
    It is caused by poor design - the under-rated terminals and wires in that circuit. The Charging Mod in conjunction with the Headlight Relay Mod greatly relieves the electrical load on the starter relay terminals, which makes them much more reliable.

    The easiest way to replace that connector is to order one from Brainless. He has set up 'shop' of sorts, and builds these starter relay connectors with pig tails. It's a great service to TL owners around the world. It can easily be spliced into your loom - either by soldering the connections, or by using good reliable crimp splices.



    Quote Originally Posted by rxf610 View Post
    Take me as a novice, I am hopefully learning the ways of Six5, but I think he will maybe say it is in the lack luster wiring in the starter relay circuitry.

    ... a battery with full amperage and 14V with a clean path to the starter should fire the bike up no problems. I say inspect all hot and ground through the starting system. Maybe measure continuity between relay to batt and relay to starter.... .....
    THE FORCE IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE! Well done, young Padawan!


    If the engine cranks over strongly, the starting circuit is likely OK.

    As for the charging issue, if the OEM charging circuit is still employed, the charging current actually passes through those starter relay terminals. Therefore, if they are less than perfect (intermittent) the charging current can be interrupted.

    If the Charging Mod has been done without ALSO installing the Headlight Relay Mod, then, as D'Ecosse shows in his thread in the Frequent Mods forum, the headlight current gets rerouted THROUGH those small starter relay terminal pins and actually makes the heating problem worse.

    Once those two mods are installed and the SR connector is fixed, you should see a marked improvement with consistent readings and reliability. If it still fails to charge afterwards, then you can confidently pursue the R/R.



    Quote Originally Posted by rxf610 View Post
    I just did the Six5 approved ground mod.
    rxr610, what exactly are you showing in the photo? A new crimped ground terminal next to the old one?
    January 2012 TLOTM & BBOTM


  9. #18
    GP Champ rxf610's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six5 View Post

    rxr610, what exactly are you showing in the photo? A new crimped ground terminal next to the old one?
    Six5,

    I put some notes on the photo. Sorry, my main point was to show the tiny tiny ground with the measly connector. Basically what you suggested to tidy up the unneeded spade connector / beef up the ground gauge. That crimped larger gauge ring terminal will probably be combined and heatshrinked with some other common ground/s, namely the male spade connection left vacated by that terrible connector I am removing.

    I peeled open the crimped end, then razor bladed the old cheapo wire at the terminal ending exposing that new clamp, then I feed some heavy copper and was even able to put the original waterproof jacket around the ground. I terminated it with a 10-12 ring terminal (definitely prematurely ), but will probably add in to the ring the stripped male end of the plug for the ground.

    Hopefully further illustrating the small gauge wires and how quickly resistance could build up in a tiny connector like the old one shown.
    ... listen to Six5 ...

  10. #19
    Baby Twin
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    *sighs*

    Right I charged my battery again overnight and installed it with the intent to see if the charging mod was still functioning as expected and see how well it performed after being driven.

    Was 14.23v with ignition off, turn ignition on, headlights off, try to start but it would not fire, just keeps trying to go but not enough power. Read battery afterwards and its dropped to 13.3v. Kept monitoring with ignition on, headlights off and the volts steadily decrease - is this just the dash lights drawing current?

    So the bike won't start with a freshly charged battery, I have to jump it, after which I get 14.2v at idle without headlights, but if I put the headlights on this drops to 13.6v - I have to rev to at least 5k before its above 14v again.

    If the bike won't start with a freshly charged battery then does that not rule out the Reg/Rec since thats not being engaged at this point?

    I'm guessing this then points towards that connector on the starter relay perhaps not letting full power flow through, in conjunction with the headlight relay mod not being in place also diverting power from the starting circuit.

    I will PM Brainless about a new connector, however with being in the US, with it being the Christmas season with its associated increase in mail, I wouldn't expect to see it arrive this side of 2013. I did read elsewhere about making a jumper for the pin in question - thinking I might do this as a temporary solution just so I can be sure that I've isolated the problem areas so that when the replacement connector does arrive I'll not have to worry about further fault finding.

    Shares in codeine have rocketed with the headache this is giving me!

  11. #20
    AMA Pit Boss snowblind's Avatar
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    To me this says the battery is hosed. 14V idling says the charging system is working. If the voltage falls steadily with nothing other than the dash lights on then you've either got a serious short somewhere or as I say, the battery is not holding a charge. A short that bad would probably make its presence pretty obvious so if nothing smells toasted we're back to the battery.

    I had a look at motobatt's web site. From the blurb it looks like the construction of their batteries is well thought out. However, even with the best QA in the world there will always be duds.

    If you can hook up a spare of some description see if the behaviour changes.
    Like my TL I'm old, overweight and badly maintained but I can still surprise you by how fast I can move.

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