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  1. #11
    Adrenaline Junky CrashB's Avatar
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    I used petrol to flush old oil out of an sv motor. Initially I was going to use a cleaner/flush, but after a chat with Sam he suggested flushing it through with a few litres of petrol which did the trick!

    ps. 2 years and 20,000 miles without an oil/filter change isn't pretty


    '97 TL1000S Streetfighter 'Evil Twin' - Full colour wiring diagrams - click here for UK TLS - click here for US TLS - click here for UK TLR - click here for US TLR

  2. #12
    Platinum Subscriber JoshCampbell's Avatar
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    Well, I plan to soak the parts in hot water and dish soap for a few hours, then I'll hit them with compressed air, and spray them out with the hose. I'll run a cycle of hot coolant through at idle for about an hour (to ensure the bike doesn't overheat), then I'll drain and refill. The hoses are still pliable, but yes, the shit in there is hard as a rock. I'll get them sorted out though. The thermostat is still functioning properly, so I'll be reusing that as well. Really just pissing in the wind though, since all that shit will just end up clogging it again.

    It pains me to not be able to replace or restore everything back to 'like new' condition (as I did on my bike), but this TL isn't mine, and owner's funding is more or less limited to gaskets and seals only. At the end of the day all I'm really able to do is tear it down, clean parts, replace seals, and otherwise ensure it's safe to ride. I can't even tune it properly due to the hacked up exhaust. But... it is what is I guess.

    On a separate note, I'm convinced the previous owner used DexCool as a coolant solution, and that's what caused all the crud build up and water pump failure. Mixing two standard coolants together won't doing anything, except maybe change color and degrade faster, but DexCool will quite easily if the system is low, exposed to air, oil, or any other coolants.

    DexCool works as a high mileage coolant, but it's not labeled as such. It's a bit thicker (orange color) and clings to steel surfaces to protects against rust and corrosion. When conditions are perfect (in GM motors) it works perfectly, but when exposed to anything else it turns to a thick mud, solidifies, and eventually eats away at rubber. It's sold at gas stations everywhere around here, which is the reason I accidentally filled my Nissan with it once. Couple days later I realized my mistake, and it took four complete flushes to completely remove it ($130 in coolant). And that's when it's fresh. Based on the information I've found on the internet, there's no way to remove it once it has calcified. In fact, GM has faced a few lawsuits over the years because of it. So yeah, that's what I think happened here. Previous owne grabbed a gallon of it because it was convenient, filled the bike without doing a proper flush, then neglected it like everything else on the bike, and now it may be too late to fully reverse the damage. So now we're left with three possibilities:


    #1 It's DexCool, and the system will never be 100% again.

    #2 It's some brand of Stop-Leak, which can eventually be purged from the system (costly), however whatever it was being used to plug will eventually begin leaking again. Given that the upper radiator is beat to shit I'm guessing it will be that.

    #3 Something else caused it. A wild card. Low coolant over a long period of time, air in the system. Water in the system, etc..
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    The TL1000R is the only bike that makes me nervous, because in my dreams it's the only bike I die on

  3. #13
    Platinum Subscriber JoshCampbell's Avatar
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    Need a second opinion on this Water Pump Oil Seal. Confident I already know the answer, but just to be thorough... Oil Seal is blown, right?

    Resurrection of (Bob)-img_0734.jpg
    Resurrection of (Bob)-img_0741.jpg
    Resurrection of (Bob)-img_0740.jpg
    Resurrection of (Bob)-img_0743.jpg
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    The TL1000R is the only bike that makes me nervous, because in my dreams it's the only bike I die on

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  5. #14
    Silver Subscriber Tuckshop Ted's Avatar
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    It's a bit academic now isn't it Josh? - let's face it, you're not going to put that back are you?
    Red, the ONLY Colour.....for a 1997 TLS.....
    (1) Sold the old girl now ....... she will be missed...


    (2) UNO frame & swinger with 1040 Bimota (aka TLR) engine running 17x40 teeth, Hydraulic clutch conversion, Billet wndowed clutch cover & cut plate spinner, Dunlop tyres, PC3, TLS bodywork, GSXR750-TT forks with custom Wilbers springs etc, Nissin brake calipers all round, front ones radial, radial Nissin clutch & brake masters, GSXR1000 K5 clocks, PVM lightweight wheels, LED lights all round, Full Yoshi exhaust system, Carbon cans, Yoshi rearsets, K&N air filter, Wilbers custom rear shock, Custom paint job. Skidmarx bellypan, Low profile rear seat hump, MotoX bars, all round (literally) nice guy.

    (3) Bog standard BMW R1150RT.

    (4) Boxes of many parts waiting to be made into 2 more TLS's.

    Workshop in Welham Green near Hatfield in Hertfordshire - TEKMOTIVE - 01707 265000 - www.tekmotive.co.uk.

  6. #15
    Platinum Subscriber JoshCampbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckshop Ted View Post
    It's a bit academic now isn't it Josh? - let's face it, you're not going to put that back are you? <img src="https://www.tlzone.net/forums/images/smilies/smilielol.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Laughing" class="inlineimg" />
    Okay, I'll confess... I was actually asking for the new owner's benefit. He's monitoring this thread, and I didn't want him thinking I was requesting new parts just for the hell of it.

    I sprayed water up the weep hole and saw the results... Mechanic Seal is toast. Along with everything else shown. I just hope to God I can tap that shaft, because there's no way in hell I'm dropping the engine and tearing the cams and shit out to replace it. That little 5mm retaining bolt was a bullshit design!
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    The TL1000R is the only bike that makes me nervous, because in my dreams it's the only bike I die on

  7. #16
    Silver Subscriber Tuckshop Ted's Avatar
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    In my opinion, if I was using up my time, tools, space and expertise in the effort to repair / rebuild someones bike for free and they started to over question my choice of methods and parts required then said bike would soon get FedEx'ed to their driveway!
    Not saying that's the case here and I would expect to explain my methods and reasoning to the owner as it is part of the process of fixing & repairing. Some seemingly excessive questioning can equate directly to the owners level of knowledge and competence, that I except.
    But if I am still operating within the parameters we had discussed then a talk through and a bag of replaced parts tends to be the route I choose. You need to get the owner over to your place at least once a week as you work so you can discuss progress and options as well as get some company and help.
    Even if that help just passes you spanners, sweeps up and makes the coffee! He will learn more and appreciate the effort needed to look after a mechanical toy better if he sees it with his own eyes.

    We get many people into our workshop that bring it in broken and take it away fixed without any concept of the minimal effort needed on their part to look after it in any way. My daughter's are the same. I try a least once a week to check the oil, water and tyres on their cars to prevent them running their cars into the ground and me getting a phone call late at night with them broken down miles away and they expecting me to drive out to them and wave a magic wand!

    Still, I suppose that is what Dad's are for!
    Red, the ONLY Colour.....for a 1997 TLS.....
    (1) Sold the old girl now ....... she will be missed...


    (2) UNO frame & swinger with 1040 Bimota (aka TLR) engine running 17x40 teeth, Hydraulic clutch conversion, Billet wndowed clutch cover & cut plate spinner, Dunlop tyres, PC3, TLS bodywork, GSXR750-TT forks with custom Wilbers springs etc, Nissin brake calipers all round, front ones radial, radial Nissin clutch & brake masters, GSXR1000 K5 clocks, PVM lightweight wheels, LED lights all round, Full Yoshi exhaust system, Carbon cans, Yoshi rearsets, K&N air filter, Wilbers custom rear shock, Custom paint job. Skidmarx bellypan, Low profile rear seat hump, MotoX bars, all round (literally) nice guy.

    (3) Bog standard BMW R1150RT.

    (4) Boxes of many parts waiting to be made into 2 more TLS's.

    Workshop in Welham Green near Hatfield in Hertfordshire - TEKMOTIVE - 01707 265000 - www.tekmotive.co.uk.

  8. #17
    Baby Twin
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    I hope whoever invented dexcool dies (died?) a death via dexcool poisoning. That stuff needs to be uninvented and the formula lost and never rediscovered.
    2000 TL1000R: Full Yosh system, airbox mod, PAIR delete, FOR SALE

  9. #18
    Platinum Subscriber JoshCampbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckshop Ted View Post
    In my opinion, if I was using up my time, tools, space and expertise in the effort to repair / rebuild someones bike for free and they started to over question my choice of methods and parts required then said bike would soon get FedEx'ed to their driveway! ...
    We're of a like mind Ted, and fortunately the owner is doing nothing of the sort. In fact, he's being quite patient, which is much appreciated considering I'd forgotten just how much time and effort it takes to disassemble, clean, repair, reassemble, and tune this bike. Mine took months, and it was in much better condition. This one looks like it was stollen, wrecked, then left outside in a salvage yard for years. I'm truly blown away that it still runs. Amazing engine!

    In truth though, all this work was never about helping the owner out, it was always about restoring a TLR. This probably sounds cold, but you guys know how I am with this bike. It's a unicorn (from hell). And not being able to drop the money on parts that it needs (radiator, exhaust, pump, levers, controls, switches, etc.) is beginning to wear on me. Might as well have just left it like it was. Of course, trying to rebuild my truck's engine at the same time probably isn't helping hahaha....

    Resurrection of (Bob)-img_0758.jpg
    Resurrection of (Bob)-img_0760.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Ih8Hondas View Post
    I hope whoever invented dexcool dies...
    It's definitely DexCool in there. 100%. Owner even stated it smelled really bad when they drained it. DexCool smells like burnt rust when it goes bad. Makes you want to throw up. I spent about 8 hours trying to clean everything out so far. Hoses are still stained, but I got the hardened crud out with a wire brush. The thermostat housing though... soaked it for hours, then took a Dremel grinder to it. Barely made a difference. If this shit is built up in the engine's cooling passages it will never come out. Definitely stay away from DexCool!!

    Resurrection of (Bob)-img_0755.jpg
    Resurrection of (Bob)-img_0757.jpg
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    The TL1000R is the only bike that makes me nervous, because in my dreams it's the only bike I die on

  10. #19
    WSB Pit boss tlsgazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshCampbell View Post
    Well, I plan to soak the parts in hot water and dish soap for a few hours, then I'll hit them with compressed air, and spray them out with the hose. I'll run a cycle of hot coolant through at idle for about an hour (to ensure the bike doesn't overheat), then I'll drain and refill. The hoses are still pliable, but yes, the shit in there is hard as a rock. I'll get them sorted out though. The thermostat is still functioning properly, so I'll be reusing that as well. Really just pissing in the wind though, since all that shit will just end up clogging it again.

    It pains me to not be able to replace or restore everything back to 'like new' condition (as I did on my bike), but this TL isn't mine, and owner's funding is more or less limited to gaskets and seals only. At the end of the day all I'm really able to do is tear it down, clean parts, replace seals, and otherwise ensure it's safe to ride. I can't even tune it properly due to the hacked up exhaust. But... it is what is I guess.

    On a separate note, I'm convinced the previous owner used DexCool as a coolant solution, and that's what caused all the crud build up and water pump failure. Mixing two standard coolants together won't doing anything, except maybe change color and degrade faster, but DexCool will quite easily if the system is low, exposed to air, oil, or any other coolants.

    DexCool works as a high mileage coolant, but it's not labeled as such. It's a bit thicker (orange color) and clings to steel surfaces to protects against rust and corrosion. When conditions are perfect (in GM motors) it works perfectly, but when exposed to anything else it turns to a thick mud, solidifies, and eventually eats away at rubber. It's sold at gas stations everywhere around here, which is the reason I accidentally filled my Nissan with it once. Couple days later I realized my mistake, and it took four complete flushes to completely remove it ($130 in coolant). And that's when it's fresh. Based on the information I've found on the internet, there's no way to remove it once it has calcified. In fact, GM has faced a few lawsuits over the years because of it. So yeah, that's what I think happened here. Previous owne grabbed a gallon of it because it was convenient, filled the bike without doing a proper flush, then neglected it like everything else on the bike, and now it may be too late to fully reverse the damage. So now we're left with three possibilities:


    #1 It's DexCool, and the system will never be 100% again.

    #2 It's some brand of Stop-Leak, which can eventually be purged from the system (costly), however whatever it was being used to plug will eventually begin leaking again. Given that the upper radiator is beat to shit I'm guessing it will be that.

    #3 Something else caused it. A wild card. Low coolant over a long period of time, air in the system. Water in the system, etc..
    I'm sure I read somewhere that after using dexcool it is almost impossible to remove completely from an engine and as a result you can't then use another type of coolant eve again. Sounds a bit extreme but as it's not compatible with other coolants without leaving a sludge residue in the engine (a bit like you have found in this one) you might have big problems sorting this out.
    black TL1000Sx, owned from new, 01/08/1998, 86.000 miles.
    Red TL1000sv ,original 97 , bought from my girlfriend when we split owned by us since 2004. 30.000 miles.
    Honda XL500r. 1983. Owned since 1997. 30.000kms.
    r1200gs adventure with 106.000 miles.

  11. #20
    AMA Pit Boss snowblind's Avatar
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    http://ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com...x-cool-sludge/

    So dexcool is an OAT-based coolant. Nothing inherently wrong in that. Worth noting in the article above they mention using it in engines not designed for it is asking for trouble. AFAIK TL motors use the solicate-based coolants so, yes, filling one with dexcool is a dumb idea.

    The problems really seem to come if there are any air leaks in a system filled with dexcool. The crud generated is precipitated silicates caused by oxidation. There seems to be a few fixes floating about in the US motor forums. Some people have had success with using spirit vinegar; others using phosphate based detergent flushes. The problem here is that silicates are quite tough in a chemical sense so anything that you might use to dissolve the gunk could possibly take the insides of your engine with it.

    I'd try the detergent flush using dishwasher cleaner as the detergent and toss in a can of methylated spirit ( or plain methanol if you can get it). If you succeed in getting the dexcool out then refill with silicate-based (green) coolant.
    Like my TL I'm old, overweight and badly maintained but I can still surprise you by how fast I can move.

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