Learning the Hard Way

[bentlr666]

Originally Posted by EnemyAllstar

Moto Tiller

Ah rightio.. Look don't get offended by any of this, we're all out to help..

I'd rather crash on a track day, at least that way you have medics on hand

[officer140]

Originally Posted by EnemyAllstar

When i fell i was doing a manuever i would never do on the road

I gotta say, I agree w/ the old fogies . I laid my bike down last year just pulling out the driveway. Replaying it in my head, there were MANY factors that contributed to my spill. If I removed any of those factors - I MIGHT have not gone down. Who knows ? Anyway, just because you don't plan on doing that manuever on the road doesn't mean you won't ever have to. Better to have it down packed though just in case. We all know shit happens.

[OldTLSDoug]

Man, Ed is a good guy, he cares about you. I care that you learn to ride and don't hurt yourself. Competing in a class environment makes you the kind of squid that panics when his right hand dials in more than his skills can handle. I tried to gently tell you to think with your big brain before you do shit. When you are sliding on your back at 80 mph that is a bad time to think, hmmmmm did I do something wrong?

My daughter, when she was 15 started riding. I spent a lot of time making her learn to control her bike correctly. We were stopping hard one day because of a traffic problem. She locked the front wheel of her DR200E (a trials tire) and slid, then let go, braked again, locked it again, then let go, adjusted and braked to a stop. Can you do that when you are panicked? She was 15 when I saw her do that. The reason she could do it, is we practiced braking every time we rode, we went on gravel and stopped a lot. She is pretty good at it, not because I taught her, but because she practices the skills. Unfortunately she doesn't enjoy the track, she got a knee down, and lost the rear, the bike tried to high side her off, she went to the inside and gassed it and the thing snapped back. Instinct will save you, when the practice pays off, is when you control a bad situation. On my KTM I lost the front several times, picked it up with my knee and went on. Twice I didn't make it, one time at 45 mph I pushed the knee too hard and lifted the front and went down. No harm, no foul, slid to the grass, got up and rode off. Only damage was the break reservoir mount ($5.00). The other one I was at the top of 5th gear, about 80 mph and clipped the curb, slid the front, the knee caught and flipped me off the inside onto my back. I slid a long time, and then got up. I had some hip pain, and smacked my arm and hand, but I rode on back to the pits.

My point in all this is that no matter how much you want to defend your riding and skills, it isn't worth it. We all know what you did, we have all been there, Ed and I are trying to convince you to continue getting trained, practicing your skills and being a wheelie riding Grandpa someday. Won't happen if you don't control your attitude.

I could give 2 shits if the Navy bans sport bikes, you won't be in forever, you will eventually have another one if they do. If you die, you won't have any choices.

Think and live, our best advice. Before you get pissed off, think carefully, is this a battle I should fight? Men choose their battles, children throw tantrums when challenged. Based on you serving your country, you clearly are a man, thanks for your service. Please listen to us, we have done stupid shit and survived. I am trying to help you not be me as I was when I was your age.

[BikePilot]

wow, the old guys are crotchety today!

I'd recommend track days, I never found the MSF/BRC stuff of any real use other than to teach a total noob basic common sense things. Go ride around a track, ideally in some sort of track school, and you'll learn much more quickly. And yeah, chopping the throttle in a tight turn isn't a great idea, it will toss a bunch of weight on the front tire and the engine braking will also use up more rear grip.

[MotoTiller]

Originally Posted by EnemyAllstar

Well tell me MR Army what would you recomend For my situation? Take a Super sport bike class in Cali? SELL my bike ? The class was the most comprehensive sport bike instruction i have received thus far. Hell were sceduling track days later this fall curtosy of MWR. Yes i crashed, EVERYONE CRASHES. i wont be doing it again, at least for that reason.

LOL this is classic shit right here.

Dude - you can and will do whatever the hell you want anyways and it's obvious that you haven't taken the time to understand any of the words that Doug & I have written in our effort to make you think about your own personal situation.

Here's my own personal story.
I had zero days riding experience on anything other than a huffy when a brand new 01 TL1000R arrived in my driveway. Seems I had mentioned to the old lady months prior that ''This year I'm either gonna get a vette or a bike" and she took it upon herself to acquire a bike for me.

Man that TL looked sweet as hell and inside my head I was scared shitless of it. I searched for riding courses and came up with the MSF. They had several courses in the area but they were all booked up so after more searching I found one close to 60 miles away and it had the earliest opening which was 5 weeks out, I signed up.

In the meanwhile I'd go out in the garage and start it up and just stand there in awe, patiently waiting for the day that I would know how to ride the damn thing.

Fast forward 5 weeks. I'm in class learning all kinds of cool shit that I never heard of before, then as the class progresses we get on the course and see the bikes.

They made us partner up and then push each other from one end of the course to the other just to practice keeping the bike up and showing us how it naturally wants to stay up after it gets a little speed to it. We definitely crawled before we walked in that course.

Anyways fast forward to the end of the class - no one crashed - we all graduated - I hit a few cones on the 2mph right hander because I couldn't take my eyes off of the female instructor that was standing there - damn she was hot!!

OK so I get home now knowing the basics of survival and I go to the garage and start her up, blip the throttle a few times and shut her down. It was Sunday and I still needed to get my license so I had to wait until Monday for that.

OK Monday comes, I have a license in hand pretty quick since I didn't have to take the riding portion of the test courtesy of the passed certificate of the MSF.

I mount up and hit the road. About 5 minutes later a car cuts me off - no problem - I knew what to do as we practiced it in class. 2 Miles later a double whammy - 2 cars try the same shit - 1 blowing a stop light and the other cutting through a parking lot to avoid the light - both cutting right in front of me. I had everything fresh in my head from all the exercises that we practiced and avoided crashing and injury.

Fast forward close to 2 years, I'm riding sweep with a large group - we have some noobs with us so I'm picking up stragglers. We hit a particularly nasty road called lime creek, covered with lime dust from the quarry. I stay way back and everyone else just takes off like rockets. I hold a steady pace of about 50 with no one else in site to include the noobs. Then I come around a blind left hander and I see dust everywhere and from the corner of my right eye I see a bike going through the woods and another coming from the grass directly into my path. Collision is eminent so I lock the rear to swing the bike around so we hit parallel in a low side instead of me outright t-boning him. This possibly saved both of our lives because he was simply sitting in the saddle one second and the next his saddle wasn't there and he pretty much just fell on the ground with a scrape on his leg. I caught the full impact of everything and bounced and slid down the road for what seemed like forever with the pavement going by my visor.
I had a shoulder and knee injury along with some rash that my mesh jacket didn't protect me from. we both picked up our bikes though and rode them home - Thanks to duct tape and zip ties.

We both rehearsed that scene in our heads about 100 times on the 70 mile ride home, we both came to the conclusion that he should never had tried to re-enter the roadway without looking and I never should have come around a blind left hander at 50 when it was rated at 25mph - even though I've done it 50 times before in the past with no ill result.

You live and learn and try not to die in the process. Everyone makes mistakes and hopefully we learn from them.

[EnemyAllstar]

Well this thread has gone far enough, i was just trying to defend what little respect i had left. I rode beyond my limits that day and i went down becuase of it, I let ego be the tool of my destruction. I dont know everthing, The Msf course has been my only formal instruction. I'm sorry for pissin everyone off. Old Farts 1- Noob 0

[OldTLSDoug]

You rock sir, we have hope for you, practice and learn. Remember to ask us questions. I fell down at 50 mph on a straight dry road from a tanksplapper when I zipped my jacket, I promise you if you use reasonable care and practice skills, this won't happen to you.

[MotoTiller]

Awesome!

All we can do is learn from our mistakes and get better.
In my head I broke the cardinal rule of riding - never hit another rider. I've beat myself up about this for years now even though I really can't see any way that it could have been avoided as it happened other than to have gone slower around that corner before it happened.

In the end there were two bruised ego's but we lived to ride another day and ride we did.

Old Farts 1 - Noob 1 - everyone's a winner.

[actls]

...what they said. So long as you're still around to learn and ride, everyone wins.

[pmmonster]

Originally Posted by EnemyAllstar

Well this thread has gone far enough, i was just trying to defend what little respect i had left. I rode beyond my limits that day and i went down becuase of it, I let ego be the tool of my destruction. I dont know everthing, The Msf course has been my only formal instruction. I'm sorry for pissin everyone off. Old Farts 1- Noob 0

for sticking with this thread. I think most noobies would have signed off long ago, convinced everyone on this board is a bunch of know-it-all preachers rather than arriving at your conclusion. Folks are trying to help. Motorcycles can be incredibly fun but obviously dangerous. I break safety down into two main components. 1. Motorcycle handling skills 2. traffic management (i.e. good judgement/experience) Both are critical to staying safe on the street... combined with a bit of luck.

Stick around - learn and pitch in with your own experiences. win/win