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TLZone Commercial Vendors.
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07-17-2008, 01:54 AM
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#41 (permalink)
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Upside Down Super Mod
Member #103
Posts: 37,819
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Sportsbike: GSXR1000 K3
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Steve TLS
is TLess
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I've got time to visit those forums now, so I'll have a read. But I'm sure Europe is well infront of API standards.
I don't think you're talking shit  All oils do contain some but it's dropping. Now bikes have catalytic converters in them, they'll (manufacturers) be specifying the low ZDDP oils to be used in them. Not really applicable to the TL's, but when someone goes and buys the latest and greatest oil for their bike, they're probably better off sticking with the old tech stuff that was originally specified until it all disappears and the levels have to come down to the modern lower limits.
i.e Is Mobil going to keep marketing it's Mobil 1 4T racing that is to an old spec that can't be used in modern vehicles, or are they going to reblend it, get it approved and still sell it as Mobil 1 4T racing but drop the SH & SG and rate it as SL.  So if you ever see Mobil 1 4T Racing meeting the SL / ILSAC GF-4 or whatever rating, you know it's under the 800ppm. |
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07-18-2008, 05:55 PM
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#42 (permalink)
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Baby Twin
Member #14979
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Nev1
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Rufer
Whilst definately not a TL expert how does this scenario sound. The front cylinder runs a little leaner than the rear on TL. Your German guy goes fast for a long time with no speed limit,the front exh valves get hot and expand causing them to be slow returning up the guides.This starts a small amount of shim bucket float(for want of a better term) which causes the marking on shim buckets.Eventually the valve gets slow enough returning that the piston catches it with resulting explosion. I have seen this sort of marking/blow ups in engines I have built for speedway,they run low on methanol causing the same sort of failure,markings on the buckets even look the same.
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07-18-2008, 10:32 PM
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#43 (permalink)
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Silver Subscriber
Member #12363
Posts: 6,153
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Location: Brisbane Qld
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The Ring-In
No longer a rain god
butI'm still a C***and a
tool
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Quote:
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Whilst definately not a TL expert how does this scenario sound. The front cylinder runs a little leaner than the rear on TL. Your German guy goes fast for a long time with no speed limit,the front exh valves get hot and expand causing them to be slow returning up the guides.This starts a small amount of shim bucket float(for want of a better term) which causes the marking on shim buckets.Eventually the valve gets slow enough returning that the piston catches it with resulting explosion. I have seen this sort of marking/blow ups in engines I have built for speedway,they run low on methanol causing the same sort of failure,markings on the buckets even look the same.
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not in a million years. ( IMHO ) :-)))
cheers stu
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Cheers Stu
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Got to love the Zone, where else can you get Zen levels of wisdom and your ECU remapped, all for free
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.....133bhp 
oggi knobs. anodised barends, polished and machined GSXR1000 top triple with Helibars, single 7' headlight. arrow cans, custom rear peg mounts, white power shock and spring centre mounted on R swing arm, painted frame, polished lower gsxr1000 triple,K7 gsxr1000 forks, hugger, undertail, clear tail light lens, PC 11 , modded airbox, K&N air filter, radial calipers, braided front lines, polished rims and black painted wheel spokes, fan override switch , TRE, tank bra, american high capacity battery, gsxr1000 front guard. tlr gauges, rifleman CCC ,van reservoirs,custom overflow bottle, ducati 999 curved radiator, conventional mirrors, machined and polished clutch pressure plate, welded clutch cam mechanism. stainless brake rotor bolts. ring-in stainless exhaust bolts with brass nuts.
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07-19-2008, 12:45 AM
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#44 (permalink)
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Silver Subscriber
Member #1366
Posts: 4,625
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rufer
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Possibly the little scrapes / markings on the right exhaust bucket are from the auto decomp??
But it is not always the right bucket that fails, so it can't be a problem of the auto decomp.
Greetings
Rufer
__________________
2x TL1000SW, candy jade lime yellow. TL1000cup.de champion 2007, 2008 & 2009
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07-19-2008, 03:11 AM
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#45 (permalink)
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Silver Subscriber
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benben
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i have bought two tls (one bike complete and one motor) with this...
all was on front on exhaust ...and all was motor 2000...
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07-19-2008, 04:34 PM
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#46 (permalink)
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Baby Twin
Member #14979
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Nev1
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buckets
When the exh valve gets hot from lean mix,it expands and tends to stick in the guide."not in a million years" may be a bit strong,quite a few engine failures in long high rpm situations are caused by this. I have tuned a fair few TL's that have been leaner on the front. Just putting forward a theory. I have seen RMZ250,R6,YFZ450 engines all with very similar wear patterns as in the pic fail for that reason. Have a nice day.
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07-19-2008, 05:56 PM
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#47 (permalink)
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Silver Subscriber
Member #12363
Posts: 6,153
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane Qld
Sportsbike: TL1000s naked
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Life Wasted on TLZone: 3 Months, 2 Weeks, 1 Day and 19:54:09 Hours
The Ring-In
No longer a rain god
butI'm still a C***and a
tool
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you make a good point nev
but a tl front exhaust valve is submerged in oil
cheers stu
__________________
Cheers Stu
Quote:
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Got to love the Zone, where else can you get Zen levels of wisdom and your ECU remapped, all for free
|
.....133bhp
oggi knobs. anodised barends, polished and machined GSXR1000 top triple with Helibars, single 7' headlight. arrow cans, custom rear peg mounts, white power shock and spring centre mounted on R swing arm, painted frame, polished lower gsxr1000 triple,K7 gsxr1000 forks, hugger, undertail, clear tail light lens, PC 11 , modded airbox, K&N air filter, radial calipers, braided front lines, polished rims and black painted wheel spokes, fan override switch , TRE, tank bra, american high capacity battery, gsxr1000 front guard. tlr gauges, rifleman CCC ,van reservoirs,custom overflow bottle, ducati 999 curved radiator, conventional mirrors, machined and polished clutch pressure plate, welded clutch cam mechanism. stainless brake rotor bolts. ring-in stainless exhaust bolts with brass nuts.
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07-20-2008, 11:30 AM
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#48 (permalink)
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Silver Subscriber
Member #4340
Posts: 4,836
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: was Chicago, now Long Beach, CA
Sportsbike: 2001 TLR, Cagiva 650, K1200LT
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cyclecamper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nev1
I have seen this sort of marking/blow ups in engines I have built for speedway,they run low on methanol causing the same sort of failure,markings on the buckets even look the same.
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Sticky valves or spring float cause similar marks initially. Sticky valves sometimes initially give a very metallic noise, as they release as soon as the piston touches them, so at first there's no catastrophic failure, but ti doesn't sound like normal valvetrain noise. "Floating" valves from fatigued weak springs also can make a different noise initially, not as prominent a metallic knock. But a lot of people run more radical cams with stock springs without problems.
The fact only one guy is having such a rare failure recurrent in the same part in his engine indicates the real cause has probably not been addressed.
__________________
It's about control skill; this is a motorized dance for joy and not Russian roulette.
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07-20-2008, 12:21 PM
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#49 (permalink)
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Silver Subscriber
Member #1366
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rufer
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I repeat, it's not just one isolated failure. More than 5 cases are known in Germany. Add the two from Benben.
Greetings
Rufer
__________________
2x TL1000SW, candy jade lime yellow. TL1000cup.de champion 2007, 2008 & 2009
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07-20-2008, 05:31 PM
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#50 (permalink)
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Silver Subscriber
Member #4340
Posts: 4,836
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: was Chicago, now Long Beach, CA
Sportsbike: 2001 TLR, Cagiva 650, K1200LT
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Life Wasted on TLZone: 2 Weeks, 0 Days and 4:26:06 Hours
cyclecamper
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But fwer than that in the entire rest of the world? Perhaps it is related to the long-running on the autobahn, practically an endurance race?
__________________
It's about control skill; this is a motorized dance for joy and not Russian roulette.
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